Ep 13 Anger
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Safrianna: So I suggested that we talk about the current state of the world today. Mm-hmm in the energy of anger and rage.
Ikenna: Yeah.
Safrianna: And I want to start by saying that anger and rage are not bad feelings. There is no such thing as a bad feeling,
Ikenna: right.
Safrianna: but like all feelings, we can get stuck in them.
Ikenna: Mm-hmm
Safrianna: and like all feelings.
We can use the feelings to propel us forward, to get information, to figure out what our next step needs to be. So I wanted to talk about that, that difference, that fine tuned difference between getting stuck or channeling the energy of an emotion in order to take action or allow yourself. Be in a certain state mm-hmm so yeah.
How, how has it been for you lately Kenna witnessing the current sort of emotional state of the world? Cause I know you and I have very different perspectives on this.
Ikenna: Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where I want to, I mean, I was talking to my therapist the other day about this, of like, I feel. it's kind of compounding the concept of me feeling selfish.
When I know that I don't have the spoons to really provide the amount of activism that I like in my head really want to provide for these sort of things. Cause I know that if I stepped into a space of activism in my really burnt out state, I could do the thing where I would be. Yeah. Like not able to hone in and be aware of where my emotions are coming from and potentially cause harm in my activism.
Safrianna: Right.
Ikenna: Versus if I'm more self-regulated or more, um, more healthy, um, then I can step into it with a place of, you know, being. The best I can be in those spaces. So I was processing with my therapist about like what, like what I can do in this state of being burnt out, but still wanting to help. And we talked about how there are people out there who are providing.
Links and, different places that you can support or offering ways that you can support outside of monetary stuff. If you can't support, you know, with monetary stuff, there's people out there that are content creators who want their voices to be heard more so you can support them by, reposting their stuff and, uh, interacting with their things more.
If social media is a thing that you do a lot. So it's like I've been becoming more, aware of that. And I've also been working on educating myself more, but I've also seen the, um, social media posts from BIPOC creators being. Good job, white people on, educating yourself, but that's not enough.
Safrianna: Right.
Ikenna: And so I don't want to be like, that's all I'm doing.
but I wanna continue, I don't wanna stop doing that of course, but like, you know, BIPOC creators have, are, have a very, um, it's, it's, you know, valid to the thousandth degree of. You know, this stuff has been happening to BIPOC people since, before America was colonized, like, right. Uh, and so it's like due to the Roe V Wade thing, more targeting the concept of, white women and white uterus owners, basically funneling the concept of white people.
having more children, because a lot of BIPOC people have experienced non-consensual sterilization, right? So it's like this really complex, horrendous, um,
thing that's happening in our country. And it's like, so big, such a huge thing that it's like, where do we even start?
Safrianna: And so this is where
this is very complex, of course, but all of the anger. without the ability to take action. So if we just let our, if we focus in on everything that hurts, mm-hmm to the point where we get so overwhelmed by it, that we're stuck in it. Mm-hmm we can't take action anyway. So in those times, you know, the most compassionate choice is to take a step completely away from it to admit that we can't look at it right now, because we don't have the resources and to not.
Drain ourselves more in the process. Right. We can demonstrate what it looks like to take care of us and every single person's story of what taking care of themselves is, is gonna look very different. but we don't encourage people to take care of themselves and we take away their right to take care of themselves.
Ikenna: Mm-hmm
Safrianna: and so it makes sense why people would want to be angry
Ikenna: mm-hmm
Safrianna: and why they would be angry. , but what next it's either we, we lean in and we focus on it in order to take action. That is gonna make a difference or we need to back away.
Ikenna: Mm-hmm I mean, I think that's the thing that's the most,
the most frustrating is that I, that it's that's the, the white person's pattern. like, we'll have some sort of egregious thing come into the news being like this terrible thing happened involving, um, you know, a person of color and this is the movement and how are we going to move forward in this movement?
And so the outrage will happen for a little bit, but then since it's not really affecting us as white people. It's like we have the privilege to take a step back, cuz it's not completely affecting, you know, the, the community, the white community necessarily. Um, I mean it is in a, like, it is in a more complex way, but like directly it's it.
The priv the privilege for white people is to be able to take a step back and be like, You know, I don't have to necessarily fight for this because I'm, uh, it's not a constant thing that's happening around me. Like people who are living in communities where a, uh, a person, a child, a family member, a cousin is, um, assaulted or, um, murdered, uh, by police or, you know, targeted by different
rules or, you know, any sort of bullshit societal stuff and biases that have caused them to be, you know, in the, in the crossfire makes it be on the forefront of their minds. Like they can't like, that's our privilege. We, we don't see it all the time. Like we're not in that space, but they do. And so they have to constantly be hypervigilant of this stuff and be pushing out these resources and providing this sort of care.
so it's like, yes, I'm overwhelmed over some of the stuff that is existing in the forefront of my mind in terms of like, um, neuro divergence, mental health stuff. But at the same time, it's like, as a white person, I don't have a bunch of other oppression stuff. on the constant forefront of my mind.
Safrianna: Right. I, and I completely agree with everything.
You've just said, I wanna clarify a point in case, in case it was coming across, like I was saying, everybody should just step back from their anger and like deal with it because I'm not, I'm not trying to imply that. like stepping back forever is the right choice. Mm-hmm but everyone, if, if you are in such a state of anger that all you can do is hurt more people, right?
You are not helping . Um,
Ikenna: true.
Safrianna: Now I get, and this is the problem. This is why this, this whole thing is a massive issue. Is BIPOC people, for example, have been so harmed over and over and over and over and over again that they are constantly in the fight flight freeze. Pretty much, especially if they're around law enforcement, for example, mm-hmm, , um, court issues, anything having to do with law because they've, they've faced that.
Right. if they're in that state of, of anger, it makes sense. Mm-hmm . It doesn't make sense for white people to stay in a level of hyper vigilance, fight flight freeze around racial issues. But if they're burnt out from all the other stuff that they're dealing with, and then they're trying to step in and be an activist on behalf of a population that they don't even understand the experience of.
Yeah. And they're already coming from a burnt out place. They're gonna fuck it up. Yep. So you can't just step out of fight flight freeze mm-hmm
Ikenna: oh, wouldn't that just be lovely though.
Safrianna: so I am not implying that BI people, that African Americans that. You know, people on reservations, indigenous people whose land have been taken away who have been routinely abused, et cetera, should just step back from the anger of their abuse.
That's that's not what I was trying to say at all.
Ikenna: I, I know, I know, I, I, my neuro divergent brain was taking all of the new, like, there's so much nuance with this. Right. And so it's like, my brain makes sure. This is the thing with, with having to deal with, um, with neurodivergence is you, if, is the feeling that you need to explain all of the sides, because there are so many times that you will to have a statement and someone will step in and be like, however, like, have you considered this?
Have you considered that? Um, or this was just a callous thing to say, because you didn't understand the whole picture. So I try my best to. To go about it in explaining the whole picture. But I, I, I understand that you were not coming from it in a, in a space of, um, everyone needs to take a step back a hundred percent of the time because we don't have the spoon for it at all.
And we just can't, uh, be activists or, you know, so it's like, I, I totally get that. That's not where you were coming from. I was just kind of like. that was something that I've been thinking about over the past several weeks over this stuff, too.
Safrianna: Right. And, and I think that all people, and this includes BIPOC people or people that have experienced, you know, a specific trauma, everyone deserves the right to say, I don't wanna deal with this awful part of my life right now.
And I'm gonna tune out for a little bit. Mm-hmm um, obviously that doesn't mean that the issue stops happening around us.
Ikenna: I mean, yeah, like you've, you've offered sanctuary for people like friends and family in your life to like we've set up our guest room at times and been like, Hey, you want to come over to our house and just have like a little retreat to yourself.
and get out of the environment that you're. Uh, that's causing you so much distress. Like we've done that before. Mm-hmm and like, we didn't really have to do too much other than like, cleaning a little bit of our house, but like, for the most part, we didn't have to do much except off offer the invitation.
Safrianna: Right.
Ikenna: But it wasn't a hello. Please come to our house and stay here for the rest of your life, because that isn't solving it, isn't helping them right. At all. Like it's helping them kind of take a step back and breathe a little bit more so they can. Go into the environment and with a more clear head, but, that's a, not exactly like a perfect analogy, but it's just like an analogy of showing.
Like we can step back and try to work on self healing. Um, and self-healing, uh, so that we can be more. like in a better space to approach these issues,
Safrianna: right? We need to help ourselves before we can help other people. And when we're stuck in an energy of nonstop anger, mm-hmm that burns us out. Cuz full blown anger is part of like that fight flight freeze response and you know, staying there chronically can cause crash can cause depression.
So. , it's not that I'm saying don't be angry. yeah. I'm saying make sure that you are tuning into your anger and meeting it with what it needs. Does it need to be expressed? And so you write or you paint or you call a friend or you talk in therapy, does it need to be turned into action and you want to protest, or you want to, you know, demonstrate or.
Take action to write letters or start a campaign or a fundraiser like there's so many things to do with anger, even just moving right, doing movement with the body, go, Kickbox go. like run, literally run and, and get that energy charge outta your system. Because if you stay all the way elevated in it, you are going to be disempowered and.
there's this huge. And I'm, I'm about to go on a woo tangent a little bit, so
Ikenna: please do
Safrianna: warning , but I truly believe, and I know that there are others that believe like me, that we are being tested as a collective right now. Mm-hmm no matter what interpretation that you wanna read into this, is it, you know, Revelations is coming and, and Christ is about to return.
And beam us up into the sky or something. Is this star seed portal stuff. Is this literally just history repeating itself every 80 years. And we are right on the cusp of like another big war. Um, however you look at it. If you do really take a step back, we are being tested collectively. As to how we handle our anger and how we are handling our heavier emotions and we can unite and we can work together, or we can stay in this illusion that we're disempowered, that our voice doesn't mean anything that we cannot take action.
That there's nothing we can do. These are the, the very words I hear from people. Oh, there's nothing I can do. Mm. oh, I've been disempowered. My choice has been taken away and then they just stay in that. And there's no ability to move from a place like that when you're, when you're in absolutes. So remembering that we do have power and stepping back into our power with our anger to say, I have power, I have control over what I do, and I am going to speak, or I am going to protest, or I am going to.
take a break from it, whatever that looks like to be empowered in your choice rather than leaning into there's nothing I can do. I'm just so mad. I don't know what to do. It's okay. To not know what to do, but you gotta gotta be able to kind of come down and ask for help then, which is very hard to do if you're wound up in that like absolutely terrifying state of anger all the time.
Ikenna: Yeah. Yeah. And I. Holding the anger can first kind of come across as a, I mean, I've, I've held anger, you know, when, when the Roe V Wade thing first happened, I remember having this shot of, you know, it's the fight response. Mm-hmm so it's like you have this shooting adrenaline in your system of like, How the fuck dare they.
Right. And then I was scrolling through TikTok and hearing about how it's going to af- you know, how Roe V. Wade is just kind of like the last straw, because bullshit has already been happening to, uh, other minorities regarding, reproductive rights, and rights in general. I was fueled by that. And sometimes people will take that and be like, this angry state is intoxicating mm-hmm.
like, they're like, I wanna stay in here because this is giving me energy and motivation to just, run forward finally sort of thing, versus people who, I kind of oscillate between the two of, of, uh, fight or. or freeze. and freeze basically is just like dissociative hopeless talking in absolutes in terms of being disempowered.
and that is hard cuz it's one exhausting to be in the fight response all the time. Also. Exhausting to be in the freeze response all the time and exhausting to be oscillating between the two. Right. Um, and so the, the first step is to gather awareness as to what you are doing. So like, my awareness is that I oscillate between the two other people will be like, I'm in this, fight response all the time right now.
The thing about being in a fight response can be coming from well, it often comes from fear.
Safrianna: Yeah.
Ikenna: And so it's, and the thing is when we're dealing with fear, sometimes that adrenaline can say to us, you need to be in this state at all times, and that can just burn you out more.
and so you need to start creating a safety plan for yourself, like an emotional and physical safety plan. So if you are recognizing, like, what are your safe spaces? Who are the people that you trust? Um, where can you be where, you know, you're not gonna be, um, you know, harmed in any way. Do you need to bulk up the security in your house?
Like, um, that's a thing that Safrianna and I have been working on is, we got ring doorbells and, uh,
Safrianna: after an attempted break in.
Ikenna: Yeah. So it happens, it happens and it's scary. And so it's like, Figure out what you need to feel more secure. And then the more you start building up those things. And some people, uh, do more like, uh, shielding, uh, work in terms of their mental and emotional, spiritual stuff, by creating personal shields or shielding their community or shielding people that they, that they care about.
And then there are just so many different steps that you can take. That can ultimately allow you to get into that space of being more regulated, because you don't have to be in the fight flight freeze response a hundred percent of the time anymore.
Safrianna: Right. And when you expand your window of tolerance to, you know, you come back down into your window of tolerance, you're often able to hold space for your anger.
Mm-hmm, in a different way. Like you. Choose to do something with the anger at that point, instead of being consumed by and driven by that anger, in that, you know, primal instinct, fight flight, freeze response.
Ikenna: Mm-hmm yeah. It's like, sometimes we talk to clients about the fact that you can kind of be a witness to the anger, instead of being hijacked by the anger.
So when you. Bearing witness to your anger. It's a, it's a different feeling. Um, and it's kind of a similar situation where at least I've experienced it this way, where someone is explaining hurt to me, like they're, they've been hurt by something and they're venting to me about it, like a client and I can hold space and witnessed that hurt.
Um, however, if I recognize the hurt, like if Safrianna mentions hurt, Since I'm so close to her, I'll be like, become hijacked with how could have I have done better? Where did I mess up in this? What could I, you know? And so those different things cause me to get hijacked and not bear witness to her, her pain. Um, we're getting better at it, of course, but it's like, that was what we recognized was happening.
And so that's what happens with us with ourselves, uh, which. Really meta. When you think about it, where you will take, uh, an emotion and you can, when you're more regulated, you can bear witness to it and listen to what its needs are. Versus if you aren't. In a regulated space, you can be completely hijacked by it.
And that's what I recognize too, is like, even though I have the awareness of bearing witness to Safrianna's emotions, and being there for her, when I have a lower window of tolerance, it is much harder to do that. So being able to recognize like where we are in our window of tolerance is also, a way for us to recognize like, oh, I need to start doing self care.
Start doing coping mechanism. Right. That sort of thing.
Safrianna: And if you, I know we haven't really talked about this in the podcast yet at this point, but if you are someone who wants to learn more. The window of tolerance and you want more tangible coping skills and such. We do have a program available. That is a course that is filled with all kinds of gems about that.
And it's something that we're gonna be adding to. Um, and it's the rise mental health toolkit, which can be found, um, on the courses page at livinglunas.com. , you know, we need to learn how to expand our window of tolerance. All of us, , a hundred percent of us. Like this does not fall on just one race. It doesn't fall on just one gender, like a hundred percent of people need to try and work on their window of tolerance and expand their capacity to deal with life.
Right?
Ikenna: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the huge thing about privilege is that there can be people who are. Have zero window of tolerance and can get away with the fact that they're being hijacked by emotions.
Safrianna: Yeah. I mean, all you gotta do is look at, you know, certain politicians that have committed , you know, atrocities and literally been witnessed having temper tantrums and people are just like, oh, that's okay.
It's a white guy.
Ikenna: Yeah. And I mean, there was, um, there's enough examples of, Black men and black boys being targeted by police, because police claimed to have seen them reaching for something suspicious when cop cams, like, you know, their, their vest cameras show that that was not at all what was happening, right.
Versus people who have been persons of interests and suspects to mass shootings being, you know, Talked down and brought into the police station, like right. And without any of that.
Safrianna: Yeah. And that's a trauma response, like police freaking out about. black people is a hundred percent based on the fact that they're not owning their shit and working on their internalized racism that is caused by a legacy of fear of, you know, the white man being overthrown.
Ikenna: Yeah. And that's, you know, and, and them not taking responsibility for working on their internal biases and their window of tolerance, cuz basically what's happening is they're letting themselves be hijacked by that fear. Yep. And that's causing. Terrible things to happen. And, but like we're getting tiny bits of, um, like fleeting moments of, of, uh, police officers being, um, discharged and jailed for this sort of stuff.
But that doesn't make up for the fact that they've taken lives. Right. Um, like there's too many families that have been affected. by people, um, by police officers, like taking lives from their families.
Safrianna: Yeah. And that is like all of this stems back to trauma. Like we are a traumatized culture.
Yeah. We are a traumatized people and we. Aren't doing a whole hell of a lot to improve that. yeah. And that's why I am so passionate about, you know, sharing the messages that I am. About elevating each other and lifting each other up because all of this division and you know, of course, anger, anger is I, this feels like it needs to go at the very beginning of the episode, too anger is a normal response that says my boundaries have been violated.
Now. Obviously there's black out outrages that happen from people that are extremely hijacked, um, coming from a traumatized place that is often the type of anger. Wielded by people who engage in abuse, who are narcissistic, who, you know, do some really awful shit. and they use their anger as an excuse.
So there's no ownership of the anger, but healthy owned anger is. usually indicative of boundary being violated. So every single person that is currently angry about the Roe V Wade decision is angry because their boundaries of being able to have autonomy over their own body, which is, I believe to be a right.
Um, yep. Is being taken away. And that feels like a huge violation. So anger is the first response is completely appropriate. And that is righteous anger. The next question is, what now do we just stay there and, and, and just stay mad and burn ourselves out? Or do we channel that into an embodied way of being in the world and say, I am going to speak up for my boundaries and for other people's boundaries in whatever way that I can.
A calmer place where we're in that window of tolerance and we're not gonna crash and burn because of it.
Ikenna: Right. Because we wanna be able to recognize like, again, people can start with, oh, we're gonna like, I'm so angry. So now we're gonna revolt and have all of these, huge activism things. And then we're all gonna be burnt out.
And like, it's gonna be dormant for a long time versus. We need a steady flow. We need a, a steady level of activism that we can consistently, be supportive of each other and, and build up these resistances to the oppression that has set in because we've had these waves of Being angry to the point of burnout and then having to step back and then being angry again.
And it's just like, if there's a level of consistency from, and, and this is the thing about community too, is like, there can be people that are angry to the point of burnout, but then if they have community members that are not. Burnt out. They can like take the reins for a little bit. Right. And then, those people who are burnt out can do some self care, come back into the, to the fold and continue the, the journey of, of healing and activism together.
Um, and that's, that's why community is so important. Like we can't do this, this fight alone,
Safrianna: right. And the bottom line is you, no matter who you are, you need to take care of yourself and your emotions, your mental health, your spiritual health. Mm-hmm and your physical health and anger has so many ways. It can be challenged.
You know, if you wanna take that anger and you wanna go protest, that's a very physical act, you know, you're gonna be standing. Is that something that your body can do? Are you a person that likes to express your anger through words and you can write a letter to share with the world or to share with, um, politicians or to share with policy makers or whatever.
we're all gonna use our anger in different ways, but the important part is for us to consider how we need to use it. Mm-hmm and the way that it is healthiest for us, how do we express what we need in the world? When we feel the anger that our boundaries have been violated?
Ikenna: Yep. Absolutely. Very, very important for us to keep in mind.
Safrianna: So stay angry if you need to, but like be with it. Actually be mindful of it, see what it needs to do, what it wants to do next that is coming from an aligned place within you. And not out of that, just. the fear response. Amatic. Yeah. The fear response, you know, ask yourself, am I, am I centered? Is this anger coming from a, a heart centered place?
Right? Is this anger coming from love? Because we love people so much and we don't want them to suffer. So we're angry that the suffering is being perpetuated mm-hmm is an act of compassion at that point to try and speak up against and work, you know, work to get those rights back. Or is this anger coming from a place of fear?
and I'm just going to try to burn everyone down around me in that fear response.
Ikenna: Yeah. And if you are in a fear response where you're starting to feel hopeless on what you can do for the community, start with yourself, start with, how can you feel physically safer? How can you feel emotionally safer, spiritually safer?
What can, what sort of, Things you can do to set up in your space so that you can have safety, consistently in your life.
Safrianna: And if you can't have safety consistently in your life, even just a moment of, uh, an anchor to emotionally anchor into, to, to, into your present and, and work on again, getting into your window of tolerance.
So you can take action mm-hmm
Ikenna: and that anchor can be as simple as a specific, like. like a, sticker you might have on your wall or a, uh, stone or crystal that you have that you can hold and it's heavy or a certain temperature, or you can, if you, if temperature's a thing you can, if you have ice cubes, um, in your freezer, you can grab an ice cube and that can help, uh, kind of shock you back into a more grounded position.
so if you've never thought about an anchor before, that can be something that you explored this week or your whole life, like it'll change it'll, it'll change all the time. Like some, one time I had an anchor that was a, a stone for a long time, and then it changed to be like a stuffed animal, which are two completely different textures.
Safrianna: I have a glass pumpkin on my desk. That's one of my anchors. . I mean, it's beautiful. but yeah, an anchor is, is literally just something that tunes you back into awareness of yourself, of taking a breath of pausing of really assessing your situation. Instead of being fully in the emotional. Parts, uh, and, and coming back to center, that's the intention.
And it's a practice. You have to practice using an anchor mm-hmm to remind you of that thing, but
Ikenna: yeah. And you have to practice the awareness of recognizing your anger too. Um, and, and asking yourself like where you want to take it. So all of these things that we mention, you might be like, I'm really bad at this yeah, you probably will be.
And that's fine because. It's not something that you were taught when you were younger. So now that you're aware of it, it's something that you can consistently build upon throughout your life. And you'll have ups and down you moments where you're really, you feel really good doing this. And then other times you feel like you're really struggling doing, um, like honing in and witnessing your anger or witnessing other emotions.
And that is okay. And that's. being human is all about mm-hmm as much as we hate, literally every time in therapy, my therapist is like, it's because you're human and I'm like, shut up.
Safrianna: I don't wanna be anymore.
Ikenna: No but yeah. So just be gentle on yourself. I have to tell myself that every day , um, because you know, just listening to this podcast and becoming more aware of this stuff is, is, um, Is progress in, in your work of becoming more aware.
Safrianna: Absolutely. And if you are a person who wants to be a part of these conversations and you want to be a part of a community, that's not pain dumping, that's not. Staying in a negative energetic all the time. And you want to talk about practical strategies. You wanna talk about self care and positive mental health.
We would love for you to join us on our discord channel and the easiest way to find that is. By going to that livinglunas.com. So that's Luna with an S at the end. and there's literally a button smack dab in the middle of the page, cuz the page is under construction, but there's a big old button that says join our discord.
And these are the kinds of things that we wanna have conversations about so that people know that there's an option other than just. being down in the dumps all the time.
Ikenna: Yep. And all these links will be in the podcast notes. So if you're like scribbling it down and don't feel like reversing, like rewinding this, um, just go to the podcast notes and you will see those links for yourself
Safrianna: and we hope to chat with you.
Yeah. Bye. Heck, heck and chat. Heck and chat. Okay. Bye. Okay.
