[00:00:00] Safrianna: Hello. Hello. Welcome back to Living Luna, and today we are here with another exciting special guest, Deb Porter. So we're gonna bring her on in just a moment, but she's on a mission to Mr. Rogers, the World , which I think is just like the sweetest mission statement about by teaching and listening through confidential and compassionate practices.
And so she's founder of hearing out life drama, aka. Hold, which I love acronyms. So points for acronym. Yep. And yeah, let's go ahead and bring her on and she can tell us all about. Oh, so welcome.
[00:00:50] Deb: Hello. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be with you today.
[00:00:54] Safrianna: Yeah. So I am trying to remember how we even originally first met.
I believe it was through a guy who knows a guy Michael White.
[00:01:02] Deb: Michael White House, correct?
[00:01:04] Safrianna: Yes. And. I have been trading emails with Deb for a while now. Yes.
[00:01:10] Ikenna: You're the social butterfly that trades emails.
[00:01:12] Safrianna: We're like pen pals, but we only, and it's literally pen pals. Cause we like respond every couple of weeks and just check in with each other.
[00:01:19] Ikenna: And that sounds like you. Yeah.
[00:01:20] Safrianna: Yeah. We support each other's mission, deb, if you don't mind telling us a little bit more about your mission and like how you got inspired to start hold.
[00:01:30] Deb: Yeah. Hold came about because the job I was in actually cut my salary and I started to think about. Wow. If I could do anything, what would I really wanna do?
And what I love to do most is listen. And my background in training originally was as a United Methodist pastor. And I left the church pretty early on in my early twenties. Actually it was my late twenties when I left. But. Hold was really inspired because I was thinking about, Okay, what do I wanna do?
And what I loved in ministry was listening. It's so important I think, to really be heard. Everybody needs to be heard and it's just a, it's a. Concrete human need. And I especially found that I needed that when when I was a caregiver to my ex-husband for eight years. And so that was really what inspired me to, I think, go down that path was just knowing how much it can mean to somebody when they're really hard.
When somebody just listens without advice and without judgment. When somebody's just present it, it's just, it's so powerful.
[00:02:32] Safrianna: Yeah. Wow. Okay. . So look at that background .
[00:02:39] Ikenna: Okay. So I have grown up in the United Methodist Church. . So that was, that's been my background for, . I've worked through many different types of spiritual backgrounds, but like when I was a kid and went to a, United Methodist affiliated
university. And in my undergrad and since I knew all of the rituals, I looked for jobs in the United Methodist Church. So I was able, so I still work part-time as the technical director for a United Methodist Church, . And it's just been really it is interesting to, to To listen to.
I also am friends with several United Methodist pastors. And it's just interesting to hear how they have similar feelings about the thing that they liked about Min, that they like about ministry the most is the listening aspect. Yeah. And I know that there's a lot of there are a lot of people out there who don't want to.
Like the church is all about being inclusive, hopefully. But it's it's one of those things where it's I'm recognizing more and more that there are people in the church that are not really wanting to be as Like our, as our cat cries
[00:04:01] Safrianna: she's just forgotten we existed again,
[00:04:04] Ikenna: But the whole church thing is that basically what I'm trying to say is people are hurting in many different ways. And I've noticed that the people who. There are different groups of people who feel unheard for different reasons, and then there will be like a clash in like the church politics or something.
And yes, I remember going to annual conference one year and I was like, I am never going again. Cause that, Yeah, cause the politics and the finances and what is church really about? I'm like, Oh no.
[00:04:43] Safrianna: And I imagine, yeah. What was your experience with that, Deb, in terms of you have this desire to listen really nonjudgmentally and to make space for everyone.
[00:04:55] Deb: Yes.
[00:04:55] Safrianna: Was that, did that factor into your decision to go into hold and to move away from that prior path?
[00:05:02] Deb: It did actually I left church ministry in large part because of the clash with authenticity. We, it of course, this was 20 years ago, right? Cuz I'm 50 now, so we're talking a long time ago.
So there's been, there's. There's been a minute, . But at the time I left the church was really being torn apart. I was in the Northern Illinois conference at the time and people were fighting. It was ridiculous. I was like, this is not how we are compassionate, caring people and this is not how we hear each other.
And what really led to my decision besides having my daughter was this I had my nephew came out to me actually. And there was a gentleman he's now passed on, his name was Reverend Greg Dell. He lost everything because he performed a marriage for an lgbtq, lgbtq plus couple. And I knew that if my nephew ever asked me, I would say yes.
And at that point, I would risk everything that I would build. And so at that point, I decided it wasn't for me. I wanted to live authentically, which meant that I got to be welcoming and loving to anyone, right? Regardless of what the church said whatever the politics were. So yeah, that was really important to me.
I think that Politics are one thing,
a whole other thing. And I think the world would be a lot better if we learned how to bring love into politics.
[00:06:27] Ikenna: Yeah.
[00:06:28] Deb: Yeah. I really do. Yeah,
[00:06:29] Safrianna: That is my politics pretty much at this point. We talk a lot in our little sessions, just the two of us, about how. Everyone's voice deserves to be heard no matter what side they're on, and absolutely when we start to dig in, we realize how everything is just coming from pain and fear.
Yes. Yep. Everything is just pain and fear, and I'm sure that. And hold, like that's what you hear is people that are like, I'm just in pain and I need somebody to listen to me.
[00:06:59] Deb: Yes. Sometimes people start from that place of pain where they're crying. And when somebody starts from crying, we're not able to get them maybe as far as we'd like, because you can't shift that.
That quickly. You don't go from crying to, Oh, I feel like I'm on Mount Everest and I feel great , but they're nevertheless, they're able to come away with emotional regulation and with the feeling of, okay, I know what's next a more feeling of calm and knowing they're heard. And I think that brings a lot of value to people.
And 15 minutes you can do a lot.
[00:07:26] Safrianna: Absolutely.
[00:07:27] Ikenna: The thing is that you give them a space to cry cuz there's so many places in the world that have. Taught us that there is not a space for crying. We've seen in media all the time, like people are like, Oh, I'm such a cry baby. And they'll like immediately be like five.
[00:07:43] Safrianna: Every time we're watching any competition show and somebody gets emotional, they're like, Oh, I'm sorry. You get so worked up. Yeah. Yep.
[00:07:50] Ikenna: And it's Don't apologize. Don't apologize for crying. And because we're all ra, like a lot of us have been raised with from generations of people who haven't been
taught or been cared for or listened to.
[00:08:05] Deb: Yes.
[00:08:06] Ikenna: In those ways. And it's just heartbreaking to see that generational trauma just pass down, regarding that stuff. And it's, I just think it's so interesting that you were saying like 20 years ago, This sort of stuff was happening. But I remember when I was at the undergrad level a couple years ago, there were people who, like this was right around the time that they legalized gay marriage in all 50 states.
And as soon as that happened, a local pass, United Methodist pastor married a lesbian couple who worked at the school and immediately got. But I'm like, yeah, probation. And he spent like the entire time on probation writing articles about how it's wrong that the United Methodist Church is doing this.
But it's just like the fact that, that stuff hasn't happening. It's still happening.
[00:08:55] Deb: It's still happening and it's so sad. And the fact is, the reason that happened to him was because he. Church polity is church polity. The United Methodist discipline is the United Methodist discipline.
And until that changes, which is only, can only happen through general conference, which is above annual conference, until that happens people. People will continue to fight and go on probation and lose things. And maybe I, part of me, I just, I feel so much when you say that I feel so sad because there's another person who was simply responding in love and I just, That's so not good.
And in terms of crying, I wanted to say something about that too. I'm, I am 50 and so back in my generation it was quite common. What I heard growing up was if you don't stop crying, I'll give you something to cry about that was the phrase. And so I spent a lot of years working to learn how to cry.
Learning, learning, creating that is safe for me to do that it's safe. And so I think that's part of the reason why I'm so good at holding space with people when they do, because I've done the work to know that people might be starting from that place of not feeling safe to be able to offer that to them so that they can stay in that place and move through whatever it is that they're moving through.
[00:10:09] Safrianna: Yeah. Yeah. And that is to just be able to offer that space to someone. , if you have ever experienced not having that space. Yeah. Is magic because you know you're doing healing work in that. Yeah. So I'm curious, like what has this experience been like for you? Have you had any moments where doing this work has like just opened you up or really expanded your view of the world in some way?
[00:10:43] Deb: I love listening. It's the best thing. And I really love teaching my listeners. And I think that's, teaching my listeners, I think is really where I'm finding the expansion because, they ask questions and they're like what if this happens? And what about this? And so it's, that's where I really get expanded because it's their experience that draws from me.
Mine in the midst of an actual appointment with somebody I'm really confident about that. I've been doing that for a long time, and I always just walk away from those experiences feeling yes, , I helped somebody. That's what I was put here to do. I was put here to help people. And so that always feels awesome.
But where I find that I really grow is teaching people
[00:11:22] Safrianna: So I'm really curious what you teach about listening. If you were to really give just a little bit of wisdom to our listeners. About listening in a, more compassionate way and a more open way. , what have you learned are the essential skills or takeaways from listening?
[00:11:43] Deb: I teach the core and I just use another acronym, , because I think it really helps. The first, the C stands for calm. You have to start when you're listening. You have to start from a place of calm, and everybody thinks listening starts with the other person, but it doesn't. It doesn't, it starts with you.
And if you're not calm, you're not gonna be able to hear somebody else. So that's the first thing. The second is outcome. What do you want to get from this conversation and asking that question before you start listening so you know what the other person is hoping for. Do they just want to vent?
Are they looking for someone to. To suggest a path for them. Do they are, are they stuck? Helping to know, somebody says what are we gonna have for dinner? That's easy to know. What's the outcome of that conversation? We're gonna, we're gonna figure out where we're gonna go for dinner, but something deeper to really find out what are you hoping for?
Do you just need me to hear you? That's powerful. The r is to relate, right? Really have to stay in there and really not be distracted with the phone on all those like, normal simple things that are key to listening. Be present, make that eye contact those things. And then e empathize. . Just even if it's just, Oh my God, that sucks.
, and just let that be enough. Sometimes that's all somebody needs, but it's so powerful.
[00:12:59] Safrianna: Yes. And wow, like what a great , simple way to teach listening skills. , I love acronym
[00:13:08] Ikenna: because I feel like that acronym is so crucial in, in active listening, but it's. It's there's plenty of therapy models that uses different acronyms, but it's like those, but it's just because you know the acronym doesn't mean that you are going to automatically know how to do that.
. So it's because for us as a species, I feel like. If you were to take this as a metaphor like our core strength in terms of it's like we, it's, those muscles have atrophied for us, and so it's like trying to build that back up. We're not going to be perfect at. Any of those things right off the bat, like we're going to struggle trying to Yeah.
Relearn and rebuild the strength of of doing those different communication skills and list and active listening skills. For sure. I know that there's a lot of places that I've been hearing people talk about the outcome aspect of do you want it to just be venting? And I'll hear you think,
[00:14:11] Safrianna: I have a game I do with clients called vent share, advice.
Like vent, share, advice, .
[00:14:16] Ikenna: Oh yeah.
[00:14:16] Safrianna: Vent share advice. .
[00:14:18] Ikenna: I think that that's the thing, is like we as humans think that being helpful is the advice aspect. , we haven't been taught that sitting and listening with empathy. Is the helpful part. Like we, we haven't been taught that.
[00:14:36] Deb: And I think part of the reason, I think you're exactly right.
I think part of the reason for that is that we don't know how to stay in our emotional center. So somebody starts to share, right? And then it always, it goes right back to that C. It's the course. So you have to stay in that. You have to practice that. You have to practice all of that. And so as soon as somebody gets drawn off their center, they're more likely to offer advice if they can't stay with someone who's crying or if they can't stay with somebody who's really angry.
Cause it can be hard. It can be hard. If somebody's mad at you and they're throwing stuff, it can be really hard to stay there. But when you understand that this person can have their truth and I can have mine, that is super powerful. , there is so much power inthat.
[00:15:19] Safrianna: Yeah. And we can hold space for other people's truth without it doesn't have to undermine ours.
It doesn't have to negate ours. And I think that's where, ugh, there's so many directions to go.
[00:15:31] Ikenna: The duality of everything is we're so black and white. Like we just, I'm just gonna, continue to lump the whole human race into this, but just like the black and white thinking, like there's the, I remember going to a therapy session at one point and being like, I can't be both sad about this and grateful about this at the same time.
I can't, I'm just not allowed to. And they're like, Why? And the therapist just why not? You can be both. And I'm like, what? Like, how is that and, So yeah. Not only do we feel like two things can't exist at the same time in terms of two, two or more people's perspectives or like how they,
[00:16:13] Safrianna: Their preferences.
[00:16:14] Ikenna: Their preferences or whatever. Yeah. Like how they look at life versus. How many emotions can exist at once? And it's amazing how it's like looking at the network of emotions that can exist in one person from one event is just so fascinating as a therapist to hear list out all the emotions that you're hearing, like that you feel and don't leave anything out even if it doesn't make sense.
Yeah.
[00:16:39] Safrianna: It's like easily for anyone given situation, there's seven emotions. Yeah. Coming up I wanted to leap back to your comment. Sort of the core skill atrophy, the atrophy process that is happening in our culture because , I feel like we've gotten away from this skill of listening into a doing mode.
And that has to, Do you, you know where I'm going with this?
[00:17:04] Ikenna: Oh boy.
[00:17:05] Safrianna: Our patriarchal system that has existed for 5,000 years now, basically. Yeah. And. We went from sort of these communities into individual thinking and separating. And so with that sort of more masculine lens too, it's the problem solving, right?
Fix it. Fix it. Instead of
[00:17:31] Ikenna: immediate gratification.
[00:17:32] Safrianna: And our technology, Yeah. It's hard to listen when our attention span. is so short now.
[00:17:41] Ikenna: Yeah, like with TikTok, it's if you don't hold my attention for the first five seconds of your three minute TikTok, I'm not listening.
[00:17:48] Safrianna: So what's your experience with that, Deb, in terms of like when you are training someone, or even if you're just like listening to someone in their experience of actually being heard versus this Larger societal picture.
What's your perspective there?
[00:18:04] Deb: Yeah, I think that people experience our listeners as amazing. That's the word that keeps coming back. And I think part of the reason that word comes back is because we're compassionate, but be, but beyond that. Really being heard dials into something that people haven't experienced because people don't know how to give it necessarily.
So we're taught as kids sit down, be quiet, and listen. And if we were lucky, we heard, be quiet and not shut up , but it's not taught, we're not teaching it. who, certainly I was never taught were you taught in any way, shape or form how to, Were you ever e, even if you think about psychology and as you went through your coursework, there were you taught, these are the things that you do to listen.
[00:18:50] Safrianna: When I learned psychology, non-violent communication was where I finally learned about listening skills because there's nonviolent listening ,
[00:18:58] Ikenna: which is so funny that it's it's either listening or non-violently listening that's scary. Like we have to have a non-violent option because every other form of listening is
[00:19:07] Safrianna: Yeah.
Sometimes that listening, it's that listening to respond. Yeah. That, that a lot of us fall into. Of the way we've been trained to instead of put the community the collective at the forefront. We're putting the individual at the forefront and we've learned to take everything so personally I don't know anyone, myself included at this stage that doesn't struggle with taking things personally,
[00:19:30] Ikenna: but then also we would be critical of ourselves for taking things personally because we've had people in our lives.
be like, You're too much, you're too sensitive, you're too emotional. So it's like when we do have hit those walls of experiencing emotions personally, because those are valid emotions too, have those feelings of also being unheard from those past experiences of being told that we're too much.
We will also self criticize and shove those down even further, which is just causing even more pain within our system.
[00:20:06] Deb: I think the the nonviolent communication that the particular book, Nonviolent Communication, I think that's how come it got labeled like that is because that book was so monumental in terms of starting to find a really A language that's easily understood and grasped by the masses.
It's written at a very down to earth level that anybody can read that and understand what they're saying and also in terms of feelings and what are you feeling? I wanted to mention too, on, on the Center for Non-Violent Communication, they have a feeling word list that if you haven't used with your clients.
I, I love that list. I think it's so powerful. Actually have a print out of it, that I keep, because for a long time it took me a while to figure out, okay, if you can't name it. If you don't know what it is, if it's just floating around and you don't know what to call it gets harder to work.
You can't work with it. You gotta be able to name it. And so that having a word list for me really helped because I could start going, Oh, okay, maybe this, and. And even better, the non, the center for nonviolent communication, they have a broken down into feelings where your needs are satisfied and not satisfied, and then it's got headings.
So you can go, Okay, angry, I cannot , I get, I'm angry. But then you start going down and really breaking that down even more and you're like, Oh, okay, now maybe we're getting somewhere.
[00:21:23] Ikenna: Yeah. That's, and the cool thing is, so I work with mostly neuro divergent kids and that's one of the biggest things we.
Start talking to, because the parents will be like, I don't know how, I don't know what they're feeling. I don't know how to and the thing with parenting is that like most of us haven't been parented to be emotionally communicative. To, and so it's they're like, My kid is crying, but I don't know what they need.
And I'm like they don't have the language to tell you yet. , we have to show them like, what words do you want to use to express these feelings, these emotions. What are, how how do you recognize your needs? What are the, how do you advocate for them once you start to recognize them?
That sort of thing. And it's that's been some of the most amazing work to have with the parents is just be like, Oh yeah. And to witness kids now who are able to advocate for themselves. Like I, I'll just witness a five year old be like, I feel this and I need that. And I'm like, Yes.
[00:22:21] Deb: I got chills.
I got chills Ikenna. I love it so much that brought me chills. That's beautiful. And.
[00:22:27] Safrianna: That made me think of, I was just talking to a client that I work with who's a parent and this couple has been really working on their communication with their kids and they'll hear. They will hear this teen, like talking to her friends and using the emotional words that her parents are using because the parents are doing the work of listening to their own inner needs and then reflecting it in language so that the kids can express it.
[00:22:55] Ikenna: That's the beautiful thing too, is like I'll often have like parent sessions and child sessions. And so like the parent, like during the parent session, it'll be a lot. Similar things of exploring their feelings and if they realize they don't know, like they don't have communica- like they don't know how to communicate their feelings with me.
Like I can be like you can see how hard it is for your kid, . And it's it's no, it's nothing against you as their parent. It's let's go through this one. Exactly. Together. And there's,
[00:23:25] Deb: You can't teach what you don't know. Exactly.
[00:23:26] Ikenna: Yeah. Exactly. And it's, there's also this beautiful thing that I've, with neuro divergent kids sometimes.
Language in general is really hard to associate with what they're feeling in their bodies. And there's like a group of autistic educators that created this like app that instead of it being actual like anger, sad, whatever it they have different, like essentially on monia to explain.
What they're feeling. And so it's it has the word, it has a picture of this, if I feel like Zap today or I feel you know how yeah. Some of those, I, some of them feels I feel like. Sandy or I feel there's one that's no picture and it's, which is very interesting because wow there's some kids that will like completely and utterly be like, this is it.
This is what it feels like. I don't have a word for it other than this. And it's to also be heard. Yeah. Through another language to explain how they're feeling is such a great way to connect with them too.
[00:24:30] Deb: That's beautiful.
[00:24:31] Ikenna: I have all different resources that more people are coming up with.
[00:24:34] Safrianna: I wonder if that will maybe inspire a digital chapter of hold down the line where there is.
Some kind of way to listen through a , through emojis. ,
[00:24:45] Deb: we actually have an idea and a concept for using VR chat. We think that we can't work with kids unfortunately, even though I would love to. Our, my lawyer just said, That's way too risky without actually being licensed. You just can't. And so I said, Okay.
I respect that. I believe that I can have an impact. With adults to their kids. Because it's exactly what you're saying when you teach the adults how and what they're feeling, if you can help them get to know where they're at, they will automatically help their kids. It just, it, that's how it works.
And so I'm okay working with the adults cuz I have, I believe in the unlike economics, trickle down in this sense does work. ? Yes it does. when we model it, they learn and. Yes the VR chat would be really fun. We haven't been able to figure out exactly how to do that yet. But I, I hope maybe someday we will.
I think it that's part of the reason if somebody goes to our website hearing out life drama, they'll see that we have phone chat and Zoom, and we hope that we'll be able to add that VR chat option because it's just another way of giving people. Some people want that face to face interaction.
Some people want to step back a little bit, wanna be able to hear some people want that text chat. I don't wanna , you don't need to know me , right? But I need to say this, but I need to say this. And so I think that the VR chat will be another avenue if we can figure out how to make it happen. That can also be really valuable.
That might also, I, I think that some people, VR is gonna be more and more popular, I think as life goes on.
[00:26:12] Safrianna: Probably,
[00:26:12] Ikenna: It'll be a great way to use for play therapy options. It's just, so like with the closest thing to VR that I work with kids on is Minecraft. And they often like it's like an a world that you can exist and do just the same sort of stuff that humans will do with each other.
And. Work on social skills and how you can play together and that's what VR could totally Yeah. Do as well. Just almost like more realistic, yeah. So that would be really cool.
[00:26:47] Safrianna: Yeah. So tell us a little bit about, if you don't mind, moments where you've seen that authenticity. You mentioned like you wanted to be authentic in yourself, in your ability to interface with your family.
You made some really hard life choices to be able to get to that point. But what have you seen it bring out in people that you've worked with in terms of them being able to step into their authenticity through being heard?
[00:27:16] Deb: It's a little bit different for me because I don't get the follow through that you might in therapy.
So I, I literally talk to somebody and then just in terms of hold, if I'm just talking about that, we can talk about it in terms of my life or, and other things, but just since I've had hold we interact with people and then and then they go. So the impact isn't ever really fully known, right?
I don't see them again. I don't talk to them again necessarily. They might call, we we haven't had anybody call back yet. And I don't, I think people will eventually, It's simply we're still new enough that we haven't, We do have a rule that we don't take anyone more than six times per calendar, rolling calendar year.
And the reason for. Is therapeutic alliance forms around that sixth time, right? And we aren't therapy, we're not that. And if somebody needs that, if they've needed us six times, then that's their cue that hey, maybe, we can help them start to move towards that. So we have a way so we can monitor as people have more than one appointment.
So there's a box to check, have, is this your first time with us? And if not, then check the box. And then we have a process of going through and finding out, okay, did this is this person, how many times have they talked to a listener? And But the authenticity I can't, That's really hard to answer that question cause I don't know the impact.
But what I believe the impact is ripples. I believe that when you give it to somebody, it can't help but to be ripples in a pond and to come out it, that it's the only way it can happen.
[00:28:37] Ikenna: Yeah. So you said earlier in terms of the fact. , you can work with adults that can then have the ripple effect to their kids.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's you are modeling that listening behavior. You are modeling that core aspect, which is, that's the, you are the, you're the rock thrown into that pond to start that ripple effect. And so that's that. That's amazing to be able to Yeah.
Do that.
[00:29:02] Safrianna: And I imagine that people really engaging, withhold the way that you're intending it to. Like it opens up a huge door for authenticity because they're really being given an opportunity to just be heard out. Not to have to problem solve or fix, if that's not what the conversation is about. And to just be received as they are
[00:29:27] Ikenna: and to be, and to know that sort of reality can exist for them. I think that's the biggest thing is like we are, we have. If you experience something so much in your life in terms of feeling unheard or being not seen, you just start to accept that's going to be your reality forever.
And the aspect of being seen or heard is just not in the books for you, right? So offering people that space to where they can be seen and heard gives them that glimmer of hope of Oh, this isn't asking for too much. Like I deserve this. I am worthy of having these spaces and, to ask for people in my life to provide me with that sort of space and compassionate listening and create communities around me that offer those sorts of interactions.
. Yeah.
[00:30:16] Safrianna: Who would you say, cuz you mentioned If they have more than six sessions you're gonna begin the sort of, the referral out process of, Okay, it's time to get an elevated form of care. Who would you say hold is the best fit for?
[00:30:31] Deb: I think we're a great fit for somebody who's not sure if they wanna make the time, effort, and an investment in therapy if they're scared of therapy, if they don't know what it's like to talk to a stranger and they.
Yeah, I don't know if I could do this , because that can be a question for people. I think too we're great for somebody who has just not something that's ongoing necessarily. Just cuz if you've got an ongoing problem, you're gonna have to sort out why that ongoing problem is there.
But for somebody who's had just a really intense issue that's out of the ordinary for them, that they don't quite know what to go, where to go with or what to do with it and, maybe they try to friend or family member and it didn't go well which happens, I think we're, yeah, I think we're a great option for those people.
And. I really do.
[00:31:18] Safrianna: Yeah. That and it might even be a really good fit for like people who have engaged in therapy and have graduated from therapy, and they're like not maintaining an ongoing therapeutic alliance. Cause they basically just. Need somebody to vent to occasionally and have space.
[00:31:34] Deb: Perfect.
[00:31:35] Safrianna: Because they already have the skills, and sometimes it's literally just knowing that someone else is energetically holding space for you. Yeah. And that process of verbalizing, like you're able to sort things out. So it's Yeah I could really see it being something that, Yeah. Therapists refer, hey, if you need support in the future, like this is a, the type of service you could get if you're not looking for
[00:31:55] Ikenna: support. That's not emergency service.
[00:31:57] Safrianna: Yeah yeah. Exactly. Oh my gosh, I'm just feeling so stressed cause. My kids did this and my, my mom's going through a crisis and Oh, I'm just,
[00:32:08] Deb: it's the pi, it's the pile up.
Because that's what gets people is when there's the pile up and it's just all of a sudden all of this stuff and then what Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:32:16] Safrianna: Sometimes they just need someone to hear them and ask even the question of. What skills have helped you in the past, get through times like this even and just jog their memory of Yeah.
Oh, you're resilience,
[00:32:29] Deb: Or even just the question of what do you need right now to help yourself feel better? Yeah. Even that is so powerful, I think, and I think that offering that in a compassionate, caring way can really help somebody from where they're at to be in a new space.
[00:32:45] Ikenna: Oh, I just am getting like emotional over.
You know the population of people who. Don't realize that's an option in terms of knowing that there are people out there that will ask that question of what is it that you specifically, not a, here's a prescriptive, like here's what statistically people in your shoes, this is what has helped them know what is going to help you specifically.
What are your needs right now? Which is like such a thing that people don't realize, Like they can explore that and it doesn't have to equal what has been prescribed to people.
[00:33:27] Deb: Oh, I'm sorry. Can you guys hear my dog? I'm sorry, . It's too the,
[00:33:32] Safrianna: all of our animals are like, alright. I'm doing the thing long enough.
Yep. So is there anything else that you would want to share with our listeners, Deb? So we're gonna have your link for HOLD right in the description on the video and in the audio podcast. So please go check Deb's website out. It's really cute. . And you've got some great like staff profiles on there.
Where people can get to know you and your staff the listeners. But is there anything else that you can think that you would wanna share today?
[00:34:05] Deb: Oh, if people are gonna go check out my listeners, I did take that down recently. The videos we're making the website load slow, so we took No, I did, I'm sorry.
So sorry for your listeners. Those aren't there, there anymore. We tried to make the website faster so you'd stay so, So we had our six seconds
[00:34:23] Safrianna: I think our website was having some issues like that too.
[00:34:26] Deb: Yeah. That it I'm not a web designer, I'm a listener and so that part of the business has been really challenging for me and has I'm trying to level up , but I feel like I'm you, Donkey Kong and the barrels keep going at, to say anyway.
[00:34:41] Safrianna: You're gonna figure it out, it's gonna happen.
[00:34:44] Deb: You, you asked me a question about hold and what else I wanted people to know. I think what I would hope people would know is even if I'm not your listener, the people that I'm training are. Gonna be able to hold you just as well, whether it's me, whether it's Sarah.
We're bringing Claire on board, I hope, really soon, and she's in training right now. All, everybody is LGBTQ plus. That is a requirement and that is part of the job interview, because it's so core to to what I believe the faith part people might wonder is because we started out the conversation right with the ministerial piece.
I trust that wherever people are in their spiritual journey is where they're at. We are not a faith based organization. We're not pushing faith at anybody, even though that's my background and that's how I learned the skills that I have. And that's where I started from. That's not what we're gonna, None of our listeners are gonna be pushing anything.
We're here to listen to you. That's it. This is really it. We're here to hear you. And to offer you the compassion you need to figure out what's next so you can process whatever it is that's spinning and it can even be a good thing. We had one person that was pregnant and that was unexpected and she was trying to, she's happy, and yet oh my oh my.
So figuring that out, so whether regardless, maybe it's a new job, maybe what it's so hard to know how to market, I think because. People are so unique and individual and is my service for everybody. Honestly, everybody does need to be heard. Yeah. . Yeah, it kinda is , that doesn't make my business coach very happy with me, , or my marketing mentor either for that matter.
But there we are. Yeah,
[00:36:21] Safrianna: We need to figure out how to network you with the therapy community that has people that are being discharged that cuz I always write up a little recommendation for my clients for, okay, we're terminating therapy. There are not plans to return to therapy, but if you need to, here's whatcha do..
But then if you are just looking to maintain yourself, here's some. Some supports, some book recommendations, some this and that. And I do feel like something like hold would be, and this is entirely unique. Yeah. What you've created is so unique. I'm not seeing this opportunity really out there, but like this is the opportunity for people who just might need that 15 minute sort of tune up of, I just need that knowledge that if I really need someone to listen to me and I need that neutral party.
But I don't wanna go through the process of getting insurance and a diagnosis and blah, blah, blah, for 15 to 30 minutes of just being heard and problem solving in my own head through verbalizing and being held, right? Like it's a I think we. Might be able to help you out there, hopefully in the future.
[00:37:25] Deb: Yeah. , thank you so much. Thanks so much. And for those people that come to hold who hit that, hit that mark of Oh, oh my, maybe I do need some more help, we're happy to refer your way to, and so Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. I think making sure that we have the mental health. Resources available to people wherever they're at is just is, it's so important.
[00:37:46] Safrianna: Mean, meet people where they're at, sometimes people need therapy. Sometimes they just need a confidant. Sometimes they need just an access to a resource list. Yep. Exactly.
[00:37:55] Ikenna: Beautiful.
[00:37:56] Safrianna: Thank you so much and. We're, I'm always delighted to talk to you, at least since we're pen pals and all.
[00:38:03] Ikenna: I need to become a pen pal now.
This is amazing .
[00:38:07] Deb: I'd love that. You're welcome to anytime. Thank you, . You guys are both incredible and I'm so excited about the work you're doing. I love your podcast and I think that there's so much good so much good going into the world as a result. Thank you. We believe in your mission too, and that's what we are all about.
Yeah. So uplifting everyone. Uplifting the others.
