[00:00:00] Safrianna: Gotta start the podcast with the dance. It's the, you know, I realize our, our audio listeners really miss out. Yep. Because they're missing our something are YouTube dancing. They're missing our dancing and our silly facial expressions and cats. So cats we remember,
[00:00:17] Ikenna: she was like, I hate these
[00:00:18] Safrianna: podcasts on YouTube where you can watch our beautiful videos and faces, or you can listen to the audio.
[00:00:25] So welcome back to another episode of Living Luna. Where we are all about the authenticity here and just being our true selves really leaning into our dreams and our love. Mm-hmm. And today we're gonna be joined by a very special guest Therese Skelly, who is just this incredible human. We had the pleasure to meet her in person when we went out to Montana for our body of nine training and the whole.
[00:00:53] Weekend, uh, Therese and and us, we just connected deeply about everything and no wonder because there is all about the same things we are. Uh, she has a passion for really blending a psychotherapy model and business mentoring and intuition into a business model that really lets her step into her, her authenticity and help her clients step into that too.
[00:01:20] So we're so excited to have this conversation with her today and just kind see where it goes. So, Welcome, Therese.
[00:01:32] Therese: One way to enter the party with the, the, and you know, we, we had a magical connection to Montana. We, we had some like the hot tub when we were in the hot tub under the stars and just going deep, like, oh.
[00:01:44] That's my favorite. I love that kind of stuff. People that you go in, you know? So it's great to be here. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:50] Safrianna: Yes, thank you. I'm so glad we got to connect then and that we're continuing to connect. Yeah, because that was a very life changing weekend for us and has really, uh, sort of framed where we're going in our future in understanding ourselves, and it was so cool to meet you and immediately get access to your superpower.
[00:02:09] Mm-hmm. So you're a natural number six. Yeah, very go-getter energy. Very. Chest out, right? Yeah. Very, very confident. Very energetic, and knowing that about you, you know, it just made it very easy to connect with you right away and, and access those gifts. So tell us, tell us a little bit about yourself Therese.
[00:02:28] Therese: I. Where to start? Well, I'll start with a fun fact. Okay. I have this just, I have, I'm in a relationship with Scott and we have been riding motorcycles. I'm sorry, he's been riding motorcycles. I went a Reagan passenger for four and a half years, and just tonight we're going motorcycle ri shopping for my first I, and there's a part of me, I have to say, what in the hell?
[00:02:50] Like, what? What? I'm this age. I have children that depend on me. What even the hell and. I'm like, you know what? Follow the joy, follow the likeness, follow what makes me alive. And so that tells a lot about me, you know? So professionally, I started out as a psychotherapist. So we that we connected around that, right?
[00:03:10] I started psychotherapist, but I did that for well so decades. And then I moved into life, business coaching, life coaching for like three minutes. Then I was like, How did I get to be a business coach? I know nothing about business. That was an interesting experiment. I'm sure. So I did that for two more decades and if you add the math up, that's makes me in my sixties.
[00:03:28] And, and then along the way I realized, and it was such an interesting process, I started knowing things that I didn't know that I like how, how, how do I know they have a curse and then I can clear it. What even the hell is that right? And so it took me a number of years and you'll appreciate this. To move from weight.
[00:03:46] I was a therapist and this is how it's done. And then I'm a business coach. So one's the, you know, cognitive, the world of the, the feelings in the mind, the other ones in the world of the strategy. And I'm just knowing all this energy stuff and apparently people get healed in my presence. Right? It, yeah, they do years.
[00:04:04] That's why I love seeing you guys are younger and you just. Step in and saffron, you're doing your stuff on your rituals, and I'm like, Woohoo. Maybe OGs have paved the way because I was really terrified. Yeah. To say like, yeah, I can heal or I can, I, I can't heal, but I, I access energy. Right? And so the journey to really claim all the parts of me.
[00:04:28] Has been a really interesting one. It's so, that's why mad respect for anybody like the two of you who are being fully expressed. I, that's why I'm like, I was like moth to a flame to the two of you and I'm like, oh, look at what they're doing. I love that shit. Right.
[00:04:44] Safrianna: Well, thank you. I mean, I, I think it is, You know people like yourself.
[00:04:50] First of all, if you are in your sixties, damn looking great.
[00:04:52] Therese: 64 and a half, sister I am.
[00:04:56] Ikenna: Goals. Goals, yes.
[00:04:58] Therese: Can we just do the gun
[00:04:59] show? There we go. Yeah. You need to be serious goals.
[00:05:02] Safrianna: I don't have any of that.
[00:05:04] Therese: I work hard at it,
[00:05:07] Safrianna: but you know, people like yourself have paved the way for the younger generation to even begin to be able to step into that because, This is a, this is a battle.
[00:05:18] I mean, intuitive assigned female at birth people and women stepping into the gifts of intuition and energy and flow and all of that, that we've been so caught off from as a culture for mm-hmm. 5,000 years now. Yeah.
[00:05:39] Therese: I have goosebumps as you're speaking because I remember. The first time I started referencing anything about spirituality in my work, it must have been like 2008.
[00:05:48] And though that wasn't acceptable back in the day, like I was a marketing strategist, God damn it, that's all I did. Right? Like, like, because I couldn't reveal, there's no talk of the feminine or energy or intuition or heaven forbid, spirituality or saying the word God or goddess. And I remember the first time I, I put the word God in the email, I'm like shaking to send it right?
[00:06:09] And. And it was so hard. I literally thought, gosh, if I start talking about what I really love, I will be laughed off the stage. Like I, no, here, here's what it was. Nobody will take me seriously. I'm a business coach. I've got a master's degree in counseling, blah, and I was resting on the laurels of the achievements and the accomplishments and what people say, boom.
[00:06:31] We deemed that ex. Acceptable. You could get through graduate school Yippy Skippy, right? And I'm like, yeah, and I will listen other stuff, right? And I was terrified to, to reveal it because it wasn't accepted back in the day. And, and the it, everything happens as it should be. But it took me a lot of extra years Right.
[00:06:50] To, to like, oh, that's how I work. Shit. Like it took me so long to put all the pieces together and own it and really own it. So I'm kind of an evangelist about owning all the parts of you, working in the strength of you. Like just don't hesitate. I think we're in a different time now. We get to do this.
[00:07:11] Yeah. So let's do it.
[00:07:13] Safrianna: I mean, I kind of really has in stepping into a therapy role, Because I had already walked the path of like trying to shove everything down and do it the societal way and, you know, the acceptable way and like, it did not work for me. I'm so burnt out and that's why I'm making the transition.
[00:07:31] And you, on the other hand, have been able to be authentic from day one. Mm-hmm. Like, talk a little bit about your website.
[00:07:38] Ikenna: Oh yeah. I,
[00:07:40] Therese: I didn't know this. Tell me.
[00:07:41] Safrianna: This is so good.
[00:07:42] Ikenna: Yeah. I literally like, um, I, I've been, well, I, I first have to thank, um, my internship placement because it was, it's based off of neurodivergent aspects and um, and it was really cool because like they were, Uh, I like, of course, it's like, you know, we all know like when you're a baby psychotherapist or you know, like learning all about the ethics and you're so like, scared that you're gonna like, you know, accidentally say something that's going to ruin your client forever.
[00:08:22] Um,
[00:08:23] Therese: and that we have the power. Yes, we could do that. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:27] Ikenna: And it, and it, um, It takes this, uh, it took a lot of like reassurance by my supervisor to be like, like, first of all, humans are resilient, so. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, if something that you said really bothered them, then like you can repair that with them.
[00:08:46] And then it's also like people, people. Are more willing to like, get into the depths of their stuff if you're willing to, if, if they don't feel like they're just talking at a wall or like they don't know who you are, you're good. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so I basically, you know, I looked at all of these websites of therapists of like who they are and I'm like, Uh, no,
[00:09:18] Therese: they're so boring.
[00:09:19] Right? I do cognitive behavioral and cbt and then I take a reproach like, ah, like you don't see them in, I've worked with a lot of therapists and I'm like, oh, we have to like sex up that bio, you know? Cause that is suck. Suck. Right? So anyway, tell me about your website. How, how did you make it you?
[00:09:39] Ikenna: Uh, yeah, so basically like I was like, oh, I'm gonna make this.
[00:09:42] Like the colors that I like, and most of them are kind of like the stark white and like, you know,
[00:09:48] Safrianna: neon blue.
[00:09:50] Ikenna: Well, that no, you're, yeah, mine. But you're, I'm saying what other people are doing.
[00:09:53] Safrianna: Oh yeah. They go, oh, the stark white.
[00:09:55] Ikenna: They go Stark White and like the, the beige and like the pastel colors. And I'm like, no.
[00:10:03] Um, so I have like space themed and like all of like the, the pictures that I have on my website that are like, if they're. Based off of like, you know, the free images. Like they're, they're all like, uh, Legos, like Lego people doing different things or like action figures doing different things because it's like, it's for both like neuro divergent, queer, um, and like kids too.
[00:10:29] So it's like, parents have told me that, like they've shown my website to their kids. Oh. And like, To see if their kid wants to work with me and the kid's like, um, yes.
[00:10:41] Safrianna: Um, compared to that beige mom.
[00:10:43] Ikenna: Yeah. And then like, other people are also like, like other neuro divergent people are like, whoa, you're like a nerd, like I am.
[00:10:50] And like, so this will be super cool. So it's like as soon as you connect with somebody authentically, it's like they automatically feel this level of like trust and
[00:10:59] Therese: 100%.
[00:11:00] Yeah, yeah. But, but it's, it's kind of scary to do, you know, if you've been raised, y'all know, if you've been raised with any shame or trauma.
[00:11:08] How
[00:11:09] Safrianna: both of us,
[00:11:10] Therese: how unsafe is it to like stand out right? And be bold and sail and things. Right? So it's, it's, that's the work is, and that's with my clients. It's really interesting. I literally have, and I can, I can be shameless about it cuz I'm so proud of it, right? I've done the journey myself, therefore I get to help people and it's literally, I, I can, I can help them become their, the best version of themselves, right?
[00:11:33] I, my year, year as you know, where is it somewhere, um, expansion is my word. Safrianna made me a little poster with my word and that that's it, right? And I get, I can feel the soul, I can feel the core, and then I can help with the messaging such that we can like, oh, that's popping, right? And so, So I was working with, um, had a discovery call with a parenting coach yesterday, and she's all burned out.
[00:11:59] And I, all of a sudden I'm talking to her and I, and I, I have like a visceral response and that's when I know it's truth, you know, like the truth bumps. And I'm like, oh wait, you're the mama bear to the mama bears? And she's like, oh. And I'm like, boom. And that, and it was like sh like. Instead of saying, I'm a current coach and I have been in business for 10 years, like, we understand what a mama bear is.
[00:12:22] We don't want a mama bear. Right. So it became like a, like a, like an energetic Oh, I love that. Right. So I, I can, I can see that and reveal that because I do it in myself. Yes. And on this journey to be unapologetically. Fierce and fearless and a little trashed mouth. But we like that about me.
[00:12:42] Safrianna: I love, we love about you.
[00:12:43] That's, and that's, you find your people when you're authentic.
[00:12:46] Therese: Like that's a friend. We we're vetting everybody else pretty much.
[00:12:51] Safrianna: You know, I've really learned in my, um, the business coaching and education that I've gotten post, post grad school, right post doing all of the traditional societal things that you're supposed to do to be seen as, Valid or worth it or whatever.
[00:13:06] Ikenna: Yikes.
[00:13:07] Safrianna: You know, I've really come to understand the more that we're trying to appeal to everyone, we're appealing to no one. Oh my.
[00:13:12] Therese: Oh yeah. It's restraining and, yes, and, and you know, you talked about assigned female at birth. There are roles that say we, especially older people like me, oh, we just know. We just, we just accommodate.
[00:13:25] Right. So that's why I have so much respect for people that stand out and say, fuck the norms, fuck what the expectations are. I love that. And most people, I don't think they live their lives. You know, they, they, they, they get close, but they're too afraid. Yeah. And so the three of us are pioneers or like we're helping people to do this work.
[00:13:45] Safrianna: Right. And to magnetize other authentic people to them. Mm-hmm. By being theirselves. Mm-hmm. Percent. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you saying, I really like that you. Referred to the fact that you do your own work. We do our own work. We're all about, I mean, I have a ther, two therapists, many coaches. Um, you have two therapists and maybe one coach in there, sort of, but
[00:14:10] Ikenna: lots like self-help books,
[00:14:11] Safrianna: lots of, lots of different ways to help ourselves.
[00:14:14] It's, it's doing the work ourselves that shows other people this is possible. Mm-hmm. This is actually, look, we're doing it, therefore it's an option. And you know, I, I'm come, I'm, uh, releasing two chapters in two multi-author books soon. And I think in both of those chapters this time, like I acknowledge that like, yeah, I had to walk this really messy path to step into my authenticity.
[00:14:41] And I didn't know it was an option. I didn't know it was an option until my. First long-term therapist. The first therapist that as an adult I deeply resonated with cuz I'd been with in therapy throughout my youth. And I hated all, almost all of them cuz of course they, they didn't know how to relate to me.
[00:14:57] Exactly. Um, therapists even 20 years ago were a hot
[00:15:01] Therese: Yeah, they often suck. They're still a
[00:15:04] Safrianna: Mess on the whole,
[00:15:05] but that's a whole nother story for a whole nother day. But anyway, once I found a therapist that I really resonated with, And she showed me what self-compassion looked like. Oh, for herself. I was like, I've never in my life seen that before.
[00:15:20] I literally hadn't. Yeah. Until her, and so this authenticity piece, right? You being this therapist that's like, look at the Legos on my website. I'm not trying to be everyone else. It's showing other people, oh, that's an option. So people already know that's an option with you.
[00:15:37] Ikenna: Yeah, I mean that's that. I mean, I remember having a lot of discussions with clients, especially when it's like, um, clients who come in and being like, oh, I don't really have any like, Bad things to talk about today.
[00:15:51] And I'm like, why do we have to talk about the bad? Like
[00:15:54] tell me more
[00:15:55] about you. Like what are exactly like, how like I'll pull up, like, you know, I'll go on Google and look up like a hundred deep questions to ask your friend or something, and we'll like go through them or whatever and just like get to know each other because it's like, you know, might as, might as well like.
[00:16:15] Feel comfortable with that aspect too, because a lot of times people'd be like, people don't want to know about me. And I'm like, sure I do. Like, I don't know, just about your trauma.
[00:16:24] Therese: Like No, that's so good. In, in, when I first started, I not first started, but, but in the old days it was really kind of repulsive, right?
[00:16:32] It was, hi, I'm a marketer and here's a screen capture of me in my yacht, and hey, here's a screen capture of my million dollar day. And I'm like, Oh, it just, it's just gross, right? Mm-hmm. I, I, I love how I be and how you all be because it's just like, hi, well, that launched kind of shit. That didn't work. Let me show you what went wrong and how I handled that.
[00:16:57] Mm. Because I had a disappointment, and I'm not gonna pretend like that's great. Like I'm better than you, right? Because to me, the gift. That we give our people is, yeah, we've achieved, yeah, we're here. And there's days that it just bites ass, right? There's days that that, you know, we all have the doubts or the fears of life situations.
[00:17:14] That to me is a way better mentoring and guidance experience because if I'm sitting here and you're making 10 millions, I look at you and I could say, I can never do that. But if you're here and I'm like, wow, they're being real. They struggle too, and they succeed and they have fun. Oh, I could get there.
[00:17:31] And so to me it's imperative that we share all the parts of it and not just the shiny parts. Yeah. I really, I love what you just said about, you know, this is how it should be. So, yeah,
[00:17:44] Ikenna: like relatability is, is, oh my gosh. So like I, I feel like there's a lot of people out there that are like almost. Like desperate to be related to, but they mm-hmm.
[00:17:56] Aren't going to do it until there's an invitation or else they're afraid that like, people are going to judge them for their humanness. Like there's, as you were saying about like, the role of women for so long has, you know, been just like, just conform. Just do what you need to do. And it's like, we're not.
[00:18:17] In a, like, conforming and like trying to be perfect causes so much, uh, distress in so many people and they don't even realize it to, it becomes like just a reflex for them. Mm-hmm. And you're like, you're not even happy where you're at. Like, you know, yeah. You're afraid of breaking out of the norm, but you're not happy in the norm.
[00:18:42] So like, right.
[00:18:44] Therese: Yeah. Think about it, Ikenna. Do they have role models? Right? Are they hanging out with people like you guys and me where it's like, oh, it's possible. Or are they in their little microcosm of, well, this is what, this is your lot in life. This is what women do. This is all you get. Right? Because I know I'm, I call myself a shame buster cuz I have battled hard with shame and it's so freaking insidious.
[00:19:07] And I feel like the whole persona, false self, oh, I couldn't tell, I couldn't tell people, like, I couldn't re, I don't wanna sh like. It, they're just unsafe. They don't feel safe because of the shame, right? So those of us who work through the shame, it's like, I'm lovable. However I show up like it, that's the goal, right?
[00:19:25] Like, let me tell you this story, this, this, this is very cool. Um, so I run, it's called the Activate Membership Community, and I love it so much. It's $97 a month best business coaching ever. And, and it's a, it's a membership. There's wonderful women in it. Wonderful. You know, some of them from our, from our shared community and we were having a mastermind, this was on Thursday and I was talking about, um, the mindset of marketing.
[00:19:52] Cuz it's all the mindset of marketing. Cuz when you go to sell or make an offer, you're in your stuff. Right? It is ah, like that is when that's when it hits. Right. And one woman was saying something cuz I was like getting them to surface, like, You know, what are your fears around marketing? What are your disappointments?
[00:20:11] Let's talk about that. This one woman said something like, well, I'm afraid that if I'm not the most intelligent person in the room, I, I, I'm blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, can I go? You know, you know what I'm talking about, right? And I just said, okay, stop. I want you to say this. They said, I want her name. And I said, I want you to say I'm a fuck up.
[00:20:35] And she says it. And I say, then I'll say, I, I really think I'm smart, but sometimes I make mistakes and she says it and I say, I now you want my, I want you to say, and I'm terrified that you won't love me if I'm not so smart. And I could just see her, she's going along and I could just see all the shame just, just come up.
[00:20:55] And in that moment I was able to say, Hey, can we love you right here? Can we love you if you fail? Can we love you? If you don't get it right, can we love you not being the smartest one in the room? And she's like,
[00:21:09] Safrianna: Probably been crying at that point.
[00:21:11] Therese: Like, how was it when you saw her not be the smartest one and share how scary it is to not be the smartest one? They were like, we love you. Oh my God. And that's it. Right? When we're in our, I'm really smart. I have everything organized, ugh. Where people are like, okay, weird.
[00:21:28] But when somebody says, I'm really afraid that I'm, I'm like, I don't know if I love people here. Boom. That's the magic of it. And I'm all about bring it to light cuz that, you know, shame can't hide in the light. And so that's an example of, you know, you can do. And I'm like, this is business coaching. Wa wa wake wink.
[00:21:49] Don't come to my community unless you wanna do deep soul work anyway. Yeah. But, but for me, That lesson is far more important than, Hey, let's get 3,700 Twitter followers, right? Ugh. And we focused easily. It's, we always gonna get like shiny object strategy. I want more as opposed to do your freaking work.
[00:22:08] Yes. Then the strategy can work. Because if you have sha I'm, I'm going, Hey gals. Yeah. If you, if you, you have the best strategy in the world, but if you're terrified, if you put a marketing message out, you're going to be judged and killed or rejected. How do you think that's gonna work? Right. So, so the correlation with the inner game is massive.
[00:22:29] It is just, so.
[00:22:32] Safrianna: It is, yeah. I've really, and I actually just had a great conversation this morning with, um, Kaela Gedda, who's, uh, one of the co-founders of the Rise Leadership Circle. She's in business with her mother, Lisa Liimatta, and they do a lot of mindset and business coaching. Mm-hmm. And we were just talking about, um, I said, you know, what do you, what do you do?
[00:22:51] Because I'm at this point in my life. Well, I'm pretty damn joyful most, most of the time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I recognize all emotions are important. They're valid, they're information they need to be seen, valued, worthy, et cetera. Even the same and the fear and all that good stuff that we don't like. Um, and I said, you know, I really struggle sometimes when I'm seeing other people.
[00:23:19] We're really struggling to access that. They're struggling to access the joy they're beating up on themselves regularly. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. They're saying, I'm stupid. I'm not the smartest one. I'm not worth it. What? And my heart breaks for them because I was there and now I'm where I am and I'm like, oh, I, you don't have, I don't have to beat myself up anymore and it's beautiful.
[00:23:37] And I, so I was talking to Kaela and I'm like, what do you do when. You're feeling bad for other people and she's like, I don't feel bad for people anymore. Mm-hmm. I just hold the door open for them, knowing that they're gonna come through to this side of joy and the side of not having to beat themselves up just simply by seeing that the door is open.
[00:23:54] They might not walk through anytime soon, but I'm still gonna be here with the door open in my, in my joy and in my full humanness and full range demonstrating that it's possible. And I thought that was really beautiful. So I wanted to share that here because. That is something I super struggle with is seeing other people suffering.
[00:24:16] Therese: It's hard. It's really hard. And I always go and they have a soul journey. Yep. Right. And the role modeling. And I, and I like, kinda like you, I think you use the same word, like the compassion. I, I The gentleness. Gentleness. Oh, isn't that sad? Or isn't that adorable? There's a part of me that feels like I'm sh a piece of shit.
[00:24:32] Oh, it's okay. Right. Like just that, just that, just that sweet. Just deep self-compassion and gentleness. It changes everything. But most people don't know how to do that. So we have to be modeling and talking about it. Just say, Hey, there's another way. Right? Yeah.
[00:24:48] Safrianna: And yeah, and some people literally don't know there's another way.
[00:24:52] Therese: Most people don't. I think we are the outliers. We're the crazies on the edges, but more, we're more of us are coming. Right. I think there's more. We're growing. Oh yeah.
[00:25:00] Safrianna: We're like the first wave in a way. You know, intersectional feminism has really only taken off recently. Mm-hmm. Um, You know, black feminism, intersectional feminism, out of the need to understand how all of these diff, it's not just gender.
[00:25:18] It's not just sex. Right, right. It's all of the aspects of, of our human experience, our race, our ethnicity, our sexual orientation, our religious upbringing. Mm-hmm. Or socioeconomic status. And yeah, a majority of people, when you start to really look at the intersection, Have not had privilege to access healthy relationships and healthy coping skills and communication skills and all of that.
[00:25:44] Cuz most of us went to public school where we don't learn anything of actual use. And I say that a hundred percent fully my spicy self as an ex public school teacher, I have a degree in education and I think our education system is a shit show cuz it doesn't actually teach us. How to communicate, how to self care, how to take care of us, how to, well, it was designed,
[00:26:11] Therese: it was designed to make people compliant.
[00:26:13] Employees. Yep. It teaches people to sit down and, and raise your hand and wait for permission and not, you know, so, yeah, that, that needs a whole over overhaul too. Isn't it fascinating that a lot of the systems are breaking down? I kind of love that. I am like, Let's watch this thing go right. It needs a breakdown, so it's,
[00:26:33] yeah.
[00:26:34] Safrianna: Oh, so we're, we're this really strong wave coming in with the full understanding of intersectional feminism, that everyone is being impacted. Yep. By how fucked up things are right now, and the system. Is working as intended for those who created it and maintain its power. And for everyone else, it's not working and we're gonna destroy it cuz there's 99% of us.
[00:27:00] Therese: Exactly. Exactly right. Mm-hmm.
[00:27:03] Safrianna: And that's the empowerment piece. Uh, you know, I, I hear so many people talk about like, oh, my voice doesn't matter. This doesn't ma because the dominant culture has told you it does not matter. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That doesn't make it true. Mm-hmm.
[00:27:20] Therese: Good. Good. Yes. Preach it. Preach it.
[00:27:23] Safrianna: Oh, I do. I'm almost, I know
[00:27:25] you do like daily. Now my poor mother thinks I'm going to be murdered. You know? Going back to your person in your mastermind, like, or just the, the experience is I'm afraid to put myself out there because I may be attacked. Right. I may be physically attacked or, absolutely, yes.
[00:27:42] Yes. Verbally, mentally, emotionally. And is that really serving you to stay silent too? Or is that you attacking yourself?
[00:27:51] Therese: Well, I just trust cuz our, our ego is gonna, our, our brain is gonna look for all the reasons why we shouldn't. Right? Because brain wants to keep a safe smile and stuck. And I just kind of think, you know, if it is, if it is your purpose and your mission, there's gotta be protection.
[00:28:06] I don't think you would be given, I don't, I mean I, apparently they can martyr people, I don't know. And yes, people are harmed. I'm not gonna say that doesn't exist, but I just really believe if it's your soul's work to do, It's, it's meant to be, you'll be protected and it, it's gonna get out there. So it's the saying yes to it, right?
[00:28:23] It's so like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm on. You know, that's the big one. That's the scary, ah,
[00:28:31] Safrianna: yeah. I mean it's, I'm a natural number nine, so fear is my Achilles heel. And I always tell my mom like, Hey, if I'm meant to die in the line of my work, then I trust that that was the mission that I was meant to do.
[00:28:46] Therese: But you've lived doing your work and that's the thing, right?
[00:28:50] That's like, you know, can I go back to my motorcycle example? Yeah. On one hand, why in the hell would anybody ever ride a motorcycle? It is not, it's can be risky, right? There's dumb asses that are texting, inadvertently swerving, um, not the motorcycle riders. And yet, oh my gosh, I dunno if either of you have ridden, but the freedom is just.
[00:29:09] Ah, you see the world differently. It's just like, do I wanna, do, I wanna just live in my little, I don't wanna be unsafe, I'm afraid, or like I wanna rust out, right? I'm like, just
[00:29:19] Safrianna: ride free.
[00:29:20] Ikenna: I, the closest thing we have to riding a motorcycle is riding a water motorcycle, a k a. jet ski.
[00:29:26] Safrianna: Jet? Well, I've, I have actually fun story.
[00:29:29] Oh. Ridden a motorcycle and I nearly died. Oh, okay. But I was
[00:29:35] 15 ish. 15 ish.
[00:29:39] Therese: Thanks for that Anyway, as I'm buying my first motorcycle today. Hey, thanks. Go ahead. Keep what again?
[00:29:46] Safrianna: I didn't even know how to
[00:29:46] drive a car yet. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure you're gonna be okay. Especially cuz you've been on them. You felt the B balance before.
[00:29:52] This is literally, I was like 15, 14, 15, and my ex stepfather was like, yeah, you can ride my motorcycle and just let me ride it in the front yard. And I hit the throttle real hard and went zooming towards a tree. And the tree had a branch right here and I managed at the last possible second to dive off the bike and not hit the tree.
[00:30:13] I'm still here. Yeah.
[00:30:14] Therese: Well, I, I took a class I took off. You're gonna be good. Right? And I'll practice. And as boyfriend tells me, you know, you, um, fell off an electric bicycle and broke your wrist so you've not been harmed ever on a motorcycle, but somehow on a bicycle, you managed to hurt yourself. So it is what it is.
[00:30:33] Right.
[00:30:34] Safrianna: That one you're comfortable on. Right. Give one that you feel is alive for you and that you intuitively trust And I feel
[00:30:40] Therese: Exactly. Yeah. And, and I, I will tell you, when I took the motorcycle class, cuz I, I, I never, I had no desire to do this and then suddenly I'm on the back with Sexy Man. I'm like, Ooh, this is gone.
[00:30:49] Cool. And I've been for four and a half years and I was like, Nope, I'm a passenger. Passenger. But this friend of mine who's this adorable woman looking like badass on her motorcycle, I'm like, there's something to that. So I'm. And so I Scott's like, just take the class. Take the class. Oh my God. It was, it was the coolest, most expansive thing cuz I, I'm, I had never been on a, like, and there's a lot, the clutch, the brakes, all, there's like so many things to do at the same time, and yet it was the most enlivening experience.
[00:31:23] You know, so was it scary? I, yes. But was it like, oh my God. And I was like, more, yeah. Then more pleas. I wanna live that way. Cause I lived with a lot of trauma and a lot of struggle for a lot of years and now that I'm in an easier phase, I'm like, yeah, I don't wanna live that way. Really?
[00:31:41] Ikenna: I mean that, yeah, that's like full circle to what you were talking about in terms of us like modeling everything because like you.
[00:31:48] We're in this space of like, I'm a passenger, I'm a passenger, and one of your friends modeled the, you know, being like fucking badass on a motorcycle. And you're like, and that got your, you know, your gears turning of like, maybe I can do this too. And that's what we wanna be, is we want to be those metaphorical model
[00:32:07] badass motorcyclists. Uh, there you go. Who There are other people who are thinking that they still need to be in that metaphorical passenger spot.
[00:32:15] Therese: Yeah, that magnificent magnificently said. Yeah, and I know that it, that it wasn't like, oh, I'm doing this cuz my boyfriend wants me to because I didn't want to for four years.
[00:32:28] And then I'm like, That's possible. That's a possibility. Then I sat on her bike and I'm like, oh, oh. Like, you know what I mean? It's just, it's interesting, the seed, the little tiny, like, I wonder, I would, oh shit, no, I couldn't do it. Maybe. Oh, like, you know what I mean? The little seedlings that, that are and are you listening to those seedlings?
[00:32:45] Right. Because a lot of us are like, oh, that's crazy. I don't have the money. That's not gonna work. And I, and just following, that's what I do. That's kind of a new thing is like, Follow the joy, like follow the, the little, even if it's crazy. I literally got two calls today, in the last day. Like, I'm sorry, I can't support my best friends.
[00:33:02] I can't support your motorcycle. I'm like, I hear you. It's all right. And I'm still gonna follow my joy. Right? Like I hear, I, I know you're trying to take care of me and let me, And I'm gonna follow the joy cuz that's what life's wanting for me. And I, I'm always in tune, you know, being a six, I'm following the energy.
[00:33:21] So that's how I roll.
[00:33:23] Safrianna: Yeah, and I mean that's, that's an important thing too. Like I. Sometimes we follow our joy and other people aren't happy about that. For whatever reason they're afraid. Yeah. Maybe it's clean up shame for them or disappointment that they didn't get to do the same thing. Or like any number of things that will get us in our head comparing and the,
[00:33:43] Ikenna: the word amongst all of us therapists that we know is projection.
[00:33:49] Safrianna: Yeah. Projection. Yes. Projecting our stuff. And so it's important to remember even if someone tries to disrupt our joy, We don't have to give into that. We don't have to immediately go, oh, there's something wrong with my joy. Maybe I should put it down. We're allowed to say, oh, thank you for your opinion.
[00:34:04] Yeah,
[00:34:05] Therese: I'm so glad you heard that. It's lovely. Isn't that lovely to be, it's the both and, right. I hear you and I'm still doing what I want. And I hear you right. Not how dare you, or, oh, they're right. Like it's, it's really nice. Again, when you're solid in yourself, you can allow for other people to have their own experience.
[00:34:22] Ikenna: Hmm.
[00:34:23] So yeah, I think, I think that's really crucial because I feel like there has been like this theme that's popped up in a lot of our recent podcasts regarding the idea of self-trust. And so it is like if you are not in that space of being able to trust yourself, as soon as someone comes in with their projection, you're like questioning and doubting and immediately like, I couldn't do this.
[00:34:46] And you're not following your joy because you're just like, You know, your joy isn't valid because you can't feel like you can trust your joy. Mm-hmm. And so it's like, that's the work that, you know, we want to be able to model is like following your joy is fucking scary, but also it's worth it.
[00:35:05] Therese: And that is so well said.
[00:35:06] Ikenna that that, cuz I think that's a theme that people don't, you know what I mean? It's just, I, I remember used to, I used to say to people, how do you know what you know? Right. Are you, are you going to be manipulated by propaganda or the people's strong opinions or, you know, because I, we all were, I shouldn't speak for all.
[00:35:22] I was a flaming, co-dependent. Of course I was a therapist, right. I mean, I two that's fine, co. But it's, it was easy to like, oh, that's right. You're right. Okay. What was, and, and now it this. Oh my gosh. So I love that y'all are much younger and you're sitting in it, it didn't take you an ex, you know what I mean?
[00:35:39] The fact that it's. It's already established and anchored cuz it's exhausting if you don't. Right. So perhaps to the two of you.
[00:35:47] Safrianna: And it's a work in progress, right? Like dependence and that like people pleasing are, are parts that are still, uh, a little afraid, right? We're always gonna have to nurture and love those parts.
[00:35:59] Yeah. Because those old patterns. Existed for so long that even, even if we have healed from the pattern mm-hmm. As well as we possibly can, at some point we will cycle back around. Mm-hmm. Cuz that's life, right? We're constantly in the spiral of circling back to anniversaries, birthdays, you know, death days, uh, the time that trauma happened, you know, every Tuesday, like literally whatever our control relationship is, eventually we're gonna spiral back around to, to that energy and to be able to be.
[00:36:31] Affirmed in ourself of. I, it's okay that I am feeling this struggle. Mm-hmm. It's okay that I'm struggling with the co-dependence, the Flaming Hot Codependence. We're gonna, we have to figure it out. We're gonna make a T-shirt now. Yeah. Flaming hot co-dependence
[00:36:45] Therese: because Oh, that's so good. Yes. Because we're all like, oh, I raise the hand, you know?
[00:36:52] That's so good.
[00:36:55] Safrianna: Yes. You know, we need to be able to say, even though I'm struggling with this, Old pattern I'm, doesn't mean I have to go back into it. I'm just here to see how I've healed from it and the way that I'm interfacing in my life in a new way. Right. And, and it's constant. Like I, I really say that I only tackled my co-dependence in the last six months, which is really not that long.
[00:37:16] Wow. Um, however, I became aware of it. Like even the term aware of it about two-ish years ago now. Mm-hmm. And then I was like, well, I had heard the term before. I'd never heard it in the definition of trying to manage other people's feelings if you don't get hurt. And then I heard that definition and I was like,
[00:37:38] Oh, okay.
[00:37:41] Oh, this is me. Right. So there's different flavors of co-dependence and how it shows up,
[00:37:45] Ikenna: but, um, I've, I've done that to clients before.
[00:37:48] Safrianna: Yeah. Yeah. And then they're like, oh, oh no. They're like,
[00:37:51] Ikenna: they're like, I thought, oh, me too. Yeah. They're like, I thought only my partner was co-dependent, but I guess I am as well.
[00:37:56] No, you just have a different flavor of
[00:37:57] Safrianna: it. Yep. Yeah. And so these last two-ish years have been me deep diving, and I'll still have moments where I'm like, Hey, I am calling out. My codependent part is here. She would like to, that's awesome. Do this thing instead. But what I need is to say this thing, so, and I just call it out now.
[00:38:16] Therese: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's it, right? There's that. That's the compassion. It's not wrong. It's just awareness. And then if you're in relationship, it's like, oh, okay then. Then we're all healing it with it. Right? So that's magnificent.
[00:38:30] Ikenna: Yeah, and it's like, I think there's, um, I've been, um, as, as a zillennial who is on TikTok, um,
[00:38:40] Safrianna: I'm robbing the cradle basically.
[00:38:42] Therese: Yeah. I I, I have a younger person as well, so anyway,
[00:38:46] Ikenna: yeah. So basically the, there have been a lot of concepts of like, what. Secure attachment talk looks like. Mm-hmm. And it's very robotic and it's like, you can still be compassionate, you can still be crying. You can still be, it can still look messy. It can still, yeah.
[00:39:04] Like they're, you know, we, like I, I cry all the time. Um, natural number one, double Pisces, it's roughness. Um, but it's also, it's also, it's the fact of being like, you can say your peace, um, and I will receive it. Crying might happen, but the crying is not to like, manipulate you to do anything else. It's just like, I just cry.
[00:39:32] That's how I processed my, that's how I processed. Yeah. Um, yeah, and it's, and so it's also that too of like, um, you know, while you were working on the co-dependence thing, it was like, you know, for, I remember you were saying at one point saying like, you, you still struggle sometimes with like the can't stand seeing people.
[00:39:52] Hurt and be processing
[00:39:55] Therese: when you're crying probably. Right?
[00:39:57] Ikenna: Yeah. Yeah. It's hard for anyone to witness the person that they
[00:40:01] love. Yeah. Cry.
[00:40:01] Safrianna: I mean, and it took me a good like probably eight months of, of solidly working on every time they would cry, me being like, and they're allowed to cry and I don't have to do anything and this is still okay.
[00:40:13] And like yeah, literally reassuring that codependent part of me that's like. Scrap everything you're saying. Throw in the towel. Comfort. Comfort, comfort. Soothe the emotion. No, like that doesn't help any of us heal. It just masks
[00:40:27] Ikenna: and it enables as well. Cuz it's kind of like, while I'm crying, there could have been a part of me that's like, oh thank God.
[00:40:34] Like I'm getting reassurance. Or you know, like if there is any sort of subconscious manipulation happening because of like the reinforcer that happens, it's like, That's happening too. So it's like when I get to cry and it, that behavior not necessarily be enabled, I can then just cry for the processing purposes and not cry for the reinforcement.
[00:40:59] Therese: It's clean. It's clean. Yeah. Yeah. There really is something I think most people don't ha have never probably experienced just the beautiful space holding. Right. You can cry and I'm just right here and, and I don't need you to be different. And I'm not trying to like, oh shit, I'm anxious. You know what I mean?
[00:41:18] Because that's what happens. We get triggered. We either have to like, we're not safe often it's like, oh my God, oh my God. Somebody's crying or somebody's angry magic. And so just to be like, it's okay. It's okay. I'm just here. Like that's, that's the most beautiful gift. And it sounds like that you guys are working on that.
[00:41:35] Mm-hmm. So,
[00:41:37] Safrianna: Yeah, I mean we try to be pretty honest that, you know, we're human and on the outside. I know a lot of people love to be like, you guys are the cutest ever, and your relationship is like a hundred percent healthy all the time. And I'm like, Where did you get that in? I don't think we've ever tried to sell that to anyone.
[00:41:54] Therese: Yeah, cuz y'all aren't, you're all trying to promote that. Like you're all just real, real, real. So
[00:41:59] Ikenna: should I just like have my like phone on for a TikTok really quick? Like whenever I'm like sobbing this real, this is the realness,
[00:42:07] Therese: right? That's right.
[00:42:09] It's crazy. Yeah.
[00:42:11] Safrianna: Oh, oh my gosh. But yes, you know, just caveating on that like.
[00:42:15] Again, if you're anchored in yourself and you feel confident in yourself and you know who you are, and you can feel the separation between you and others and know at the same time there's unity, right? Mm-hmm. Being separate can be even more joining in a way, like when you acknowledge your edge, um, if you feel really anchored in yourself, then.
[00:42:34] You're not going to feel the need to stop your authenticity because someone else is having a reaction. And so the bottom line, do your work, people
[00:42:45] Therese: please. I. And don't wait till, don't, don't take all the decades. Do it when you're younger. We'll see that's an option for you. Actually, it's really funny. I'll just share this cuz I have the age thing happening, right?
[00:42:57] And um, when I first started dating Scott, I, I was not a woman that's like, does this person make my ass look big? Like, I was not that at all. I, like, I'm, I'm not into the whole beauty thing. I, whatever. And then I dated a younger hottie and I'm like, oh God, I've got wrinkles. Oh Jesus. And it was so weird cuz it was like, oh, this is a, I literally have taken on the cultural thing like cuz it wasn't living in me.
[00:43:21] I walked into the like, okay, now I have to be insecure cuz he's in my life. Sex thing that he is. Right. And it was, it was stunning to be like, wait, mine not, what's really mine? And I bought like $2,000 of face cream, like when I was, when I was in the, not mine shit. Right. I'm like, what are you even doing?
[00:43:41] Right. But that's, that's the, and then I finally, I had to say, you know, I have done four decades of personal growth work. So, yeah, I got, but I, that I cannot trade that for, like, that to me is way more important. And so it's what we value, right? So I think women have been trained to your, how you look or what you're, or people have been trained, like what you achieve, what you know, like we are all the externals and it was so yummy just to get in the like, Yeah, play the age card.
[00:44:13] Don't, don't hide, don't apologize. There's nothing fake here. Right. Just own the freaking work that I've done for all those decades. Yeah. And so, um, work on it. And just work. Keep working, keep working. So, and again,
[00:44:26] Safrianna: goals, right? We wanna, we wanna be as happy, healthy, joyful, aligned as you are.
[00:44:34] Therese: Well, y'all, you have a good start.
[00:44:35] You, the, the two of you are I just mad respect for the two of you because you. You're doing it, you're talking it, you're, you're, I, it's just magnificent. So I, I just, Love seeing what the, what you all are up to in the world. And you know, big fan. I'm big fan. Well, thank you. Big fan of Living Luna, right? Is that how I say it?
[00:44:54] Safrianna: Yes. Living Luna,
[00:44:56] Ikenna: living loving, unashamed and nurturing authenticity.
[00:45:00] Therese: Boom. I think we have done that in this, in this show. I think.
[00:45:04] Safrianna: I would say so. Yeah. You know, and I hope you go pick out the perfect motorcycle and I hope you send us pictures of this motorcycle. I'll, ill. And I hope you do a photo shoot on this motorcycle.
[00:45:15] Therese: But Well, you will not be surprised. You will not be surprised at all pri based on what you did. Um, it's a red motorcycle. Yes. Yes. Hope get the red because you know, it's, we have to negotiate. Boyfriends didn't negotiate cuz I'm like, oh, all the other ones are black. I don't want, that. Looks like everybody else, so I'm going for those.
[00:45:34] Cherry freaking red. Yes. Beautiful Indian motorcycles. So we'll see. Yes. I'll send you pictures, I'll send you.
[00:45:40] Safrianna: So please do. So theres, if people would like to be more in your energy, what kinds of people tend to work with you in your mastermind group?
[00:45:50] Therese: Thank you. Well, I have, I have two levels of mastermind.
[00:45:52] So I have the $97 one, and those are for the generally business owners that are like under 50,000. They're newer and the focus there I say is owning your value and visibility. Right. So they're the people that are, that haven't yet, you know, they haven't yet gotten to the point where they're super solid and everybody, not a surprise.
[00:46:11] I work with mission-driven, service-based business owners. Like they're are people, like they're, they like we all would be, you know, dancing around fire together. And then I have, so that's called the Activate membership. Um, and that's, that's, it's just, it's just lovely. I'm very proud of that community cuz I, I fostered, I, I created it with founders like I handpicked.
[00:46:32] 20 women and said, let's do it. And now I'm opening it to the public cuz now I'm like, oh, I said the culture boom. And then the, I have the expansion mastermind and that's a smaller, that's only six people for six months and it's a closed group container and it's, so that's for the more, you know, closer to six figures.
[00:46:50] And so we do the blend of the boat, those guys, it's more expand and energize your sole purpose. So while we're doing strategies, it's really like next lovely, like what you're doing step round. Like, wait, I was doing this and like, Oh shit. Wow. I wanna do that instead. Holy shit. Right. So that's the expand, that's the expansion mastermind.
[00:47:09] So activate and expand, and then there's private coaching.
[00:47:12] Safrianna: I love that. That's awesome. Those sound very nourishing and your energy is just so lovely. And yes, you have this superpower to feel what's alive and somebody like in the moment. And that is, I mean, talk about good coaching skills, like just having that innate ability is gonna skyrocket your ability to.
[00:47:29] To be with the coach coaching. So thank you so much for this conversation. Um, it is a pleasure as always to be in your energy and share space with you. We would love to have many, many more conversations
[00:47:42] with you.
[00:47:42] Therese: We will. Our journey is to started. Yes. All right. Magnificent. Thank you so much.
[00:47:47] Safrianna: Well, until a next time living, Luna, thank you so much there, and we will catch you again soon.
[00:47:54] Bye. Bye.
