[00:00:00] Safrianna: I didn't have it ready. I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready to dance. I was getting set up still. Here we are. And this is why every episode I'm going to say you better be watching the YouTube because you miss our dancing. Even if you go watch the first 30 seconds for our dancing, at least one point, do it.
[00:00:17] It's well worth it.
[00:00:17] Ikenna: Yeah, at some point I'll... Brings joy. At some point I'll create a mass, you know, compilation of all of our beginning dancing.
[00:00:25] Safrianna: That's, that's fun. I like that. Yeah. So, welcome back to another episode of Living Luna, where we're all about being our authentic selves and just showing up in the moment, whatever that looks like.
[00:00:37] And today we are excited to introduce you to Larae Ross, who we met in Sedona. And Laray is just an incredible human. All around fun spirit, and she's just about living life to the fullest, which is, we, we did that in Sedona, we really lived it up together, we had a lot of fun, so let's bring her on and have a
[00:00:59] talk.
[00:01:00] Boop! Welcome!
[00:01:04] Larae: Hi guys! How are ya?
[00:01:06] Safrianna: Doing pretty good! Lots of movement in life, but I, I'm excited about everything that's coming down the pike. How about you?
[00:01:13] Larae: Yes. I am doing great. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to be here with you guys. Um, we hadn't really talked or anything since Sedona and Sedona was so awesome.
[00:01:25] And it was just so fun hanging out with you guys. I told you, I was like, we're going to be friends. Like we're going to be friends. Yes. So yeah,
[00:01:33] Safrianna: I keep thinking about when am I going to go down to Tennessee and like hang out?
[00:01:38] Larae: I know this, this year is going by so freaking fast and, Yeah, so it's crazy. I've got like people come in like all this time.
[00:01:49] I'm supposed to go to Italy in November. I'm excited about that. But yeah, I, um, I just had so much fun with you guys in Sedona and like. Learning more about, you know, LGBTQ life. That life.
[00:02:10] Safrianna: That life. I know I love that about you though because there are so many people like you in the world that are like, I love everybody, but I don't have any clue how to talk to you respectfully without accidentally like saying something.
[00:02:26] That you're going to take them away.
[00:02:28] Larae: Yes, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I know we had the whole, like, binary conversation, like, what does that even mean? And then, you know, what is polyamory? Is that a cult? I don't know.
[00:02:46] I watch shiny, happy people. And then I'm like, wait, and, uh, so, um, I, yeah, I'm like, what's going on? No, but, um, yeah, it was like, So cool. Like you guys school of me and tell me, like, explain this stuff. Cause I feel like I'm in the, a lot of people are in the same boat with me. Like we all want to be respectful.
[00:03:09] We're open minded. We don't really care or have judgment. But we just don't know. We're not knowledgeable. And it's like, uh, like when you were like, I'm a they, and I was like, how does that work? And, you know, like, I'm down with that, like, whatever. But like, could you explain this to me? So I understand it.
[00:03:29] And you did a great job, by the way. Um, I really loved the whole, um, it's like, Christians, like it's an umbrella, like when you were talking about being queer and gay, like, so, uh, yeah, but one thing I told you, I had a question and, um, uh, you'll probably find this comical. So, um. I'm on Facebook dating and so is a good friend of mine and we really, it's really just comic relief more than anything and, um, yeah, it was funny, my friend had messaged me one day and she was like, girl, this guy just sent me a message and say he's, um, an ethical non monogamous.
[00:04:15] And I was like, girl, that ain't a thing. I was like, I'm pretty sure that's not a thing. And then like, no shit yesterday, I was like going through Facebook and I saw one of your posts and you were like, I can't remember who it was that you had talked to or met with. And you're like, we had this conversation and you said like about non, Ethical non monogamy.
[00:04:39] And I was like, oh my god, It is a thing!
[00:04:44] So, um, I would love an explanation on this.
[00:04:49] Ikenna: It's so cute.
[00:04:51] Safrianna: Oh my gosh.
[00:04:53] Ikenna: So like an umbrella of Christianity, um, we
[00:04:57] Safrianna: Ethical non monogamy is the umbrella.
[00:05:01] Larae: Oh, okay.
[00:05:02] Safrianna: Polyamory is under that.
[00:05:07] Ikenna: What, swinging is another one?
[00:05:08] Safrianna: Swinging
[00:05:09] could be under that. Yeah, the ethical
[00:05:11] part is the key, because the key to any, I mean, the key to everything is ethics.
[00:05:18] Being real, right? Like you can literally
[00:05:20] Ikenna: That should be the default, but since the default isn't usually ethical, we have to put the word ethical in front of it so people really get it in their heads.
[00:05:28] Safrianna: Because let's be real, like there's a lot of monogamists that aren't ethical, right? They're out having affairs left and right.
[00:05:35] Larae: Well, true, true.
[00:05:36] Safrianna: They're having the side, you know, they've got the side piece, whatever. We, many of us have been there, done that, right? It's not ethical if people Don't know about it if we're not talking ethical non monogamy is the same thing. It's ethically Consensually, with full knowledge and consent between parties, entering into some kind of non monogamous agreement.
[00:05:59] So that, that could be polyamory, like we are in a polyamorous relationship.
[00:06:05] Okay, now, errr. I know we talked about this, but, um, you know, I want to make sure I'm on the right page. So polyamory, you have multiple partners. It doesn't have to be like one or the, like, it doesn't have to be all female or all male or.
[00:06:24] Um, you can just do whatever
[00:06:25] you want. Just, yeah, just do whatever you want. So that would be more maybe an open relationship to do whatever you want, but. Okay, yeah.
[00:06:35] Larae: So, like, this isn't an open relationship then?
[00:06:38] Safrianna: Nope.
[00:06:38] Larae: Girl, this is a lot. Yeah. I mean, I was telling you guys, I was like, I feel like I need, like, a class.
[00:06:45] You know?
[00:06:46] Safrianna: Well, here you are.
[00:06:48] Ikenna: I'm like, hmmm Google, are you telling me?
[00:06:53] Safrianna: But this is, like, this is what I teach on a, like, on mostly a one on one basis, but I'm getting into consulting with this because it is an important conversation, again, just like the LGBTQIA stuff, there's just not a lot of information or, or knowledge.
[00:07:07] So, an open relationship is another non monogamous term, but open relationships are usually literally that. We're open to whatever, right? So sometimes they will put rules on an open relationship, like you can sleep around with anyone you want, but no emotions. Or it could be just free for all, do what you want, and that could be considered an open relationship.
[00:07:35] But again, if it's going to be ethical, There needs to be specific agreements on what that means. Polyamory traditionally means multiple relationships. And there are open polyamorous relationships and closed polyamorous relationships. So a closed polyamorous relationship is like... We're in this relationship, and right now we're not open to other people coming into relationship with anyone in the system.
[00:08:02] And then open would be like, some of us or all of us are still open to dating more people, but like, there's still an agreement that we're gonna talk about, like, who we're bringing in. Um, so again, the ethical part is about the conversations, and... And then there's different types of polyamory.
[00:08:21] Ikenna: Yep. So there's, uh, there, you know, there's like the hierarchical, um, polyamory that is like.
[00:08:29] Safrianna: This is my spouse and they will always come before everyone else, which is not how we do it. Um, that could be an arrangement if we were like, because we're married, we're more important than the other relationships. But if you hear that, does that sound super ethical to, like, treat other people as, like, lesser than?
[00:08:46] So that's where it's, like, it needs to be very carefully discussed to make sure, like, Yeah, of course we agree that your spouse comes first, but, like, we need this much attention to be, like, to be happily in the relationship. And so there's negotiation there.
[00:09:02] Ikenna: There's, um, parallel polyamory, which is, like, If, um, I was kind of in that situation with my ex where, like, you, I, you know, you and I are in a relationship, but then I would see them separately.
[00:09:19] Safrianna: And we would never, like, cross hang out. So it was like two parallel relationships. And then what we're in now is called Kitchen Table Polly where it's like, we're in a relationship, they have another relationship, I have another relationship, and all of us can hang out together at the kitchen table and like have a meal and be good friends.
[00:09:40] Larae: So okay, and I hope this isn't like sound dumb or too personal or whatever.
[00:09:45] Ikenna: No, it's fine.
[00:09:46] Larae: But when all four of you guys. Or, well, you know, all four of you are there together people. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you .
[00:09:54] Ikenna: I'm just, I'm just a little guy. It's fine. Just kidding. Yeah. ,
[00:09:57] Larae: bruh. You're bruh . . Um, so when all four of you are together, do you kind of couple up, like, how does that work?
[00:10:08] Or are
[00:10:09] Safrianna: like, like it's often if we're all hanging out, like obviously Kenna's other partner and I, and. My other partner and Kenna don't have like physical intimacy though They've all we've all dogpiled on the couch and cuddled during a movie. Dogpile is not a euphemism. Not a euphemism here But like yeah, I guess when we do seating arrangements It'll often be like my partner, me, Kenna, other partner and like kind of so we're all sitting near our partners That's not always strict like and we're very Cozy, but
[00:10:45] Ikenna: you'll also hang out on like your computer and then Kristen and I will like cuddle Justin Yeah, even though neither of us are partners with Justin.
[00:10:54] Right.
[00:10:55] Safrianna: Justin's a cuddly guy. He's a natural number two. Yeah.
[00:10:58] Larae: Yeah that's Right on. Like, right on.
[00:11:03] Ikenna: I can just see your, like, the cogs are turning.
[00:11:06] Larae: I know. I'm just like, whoa.
[00:11:08] Safrianna: Yeah. I mean, it takes a lot of communication, of course.
[00:11:11] Larae: I was gonna say, well, I remember asking you, like, do you guys get jealous? Like, yeah.
[00:11:17] Safrianna: Monogamous people get jealous all the time. I mean, I just got off a call with a client that was like, man, I'm jealous because my partner got a tattoo, so now I'm going to get a tattoo. I'm like, yeah. Well, at least you've acknowledged that jealousy is there. Jealousy is simply a response of like, oh, I want that thing too.
[00:11:34] And that's all it is. It doesn't have to be a bad thing. If we start to judge jealousy as bad, it gets bad. But if we're like, oh, this is just a signal. This is the emotional cue of, I want that too. And then all that means, I always use the example of like, Let's say you, you go to a concert, like, Kenna goes to a concert, and, with Kristen, and I'm like, Man, I wish I'd gone to the concert too, I'm jealous.
[00:12:02] Okay, so I can say, Kenna, could we go to a concert together? Or, you know, I would maybe like to do that with you, too.
[00:12:10] Larae: Yeah, okay, so when I'm talking to jealous, I'm not talking about a concert, I'm talking of like, personal, you know, like,
[00:12:21] Safrianna: This is an explicit episode, we're gonna
[00:12:25] Ikenna: Alright everyone, so if you have children listening, we are probably gonna talk about sex from here on out, so please Change the channel if you have people you don't want to talk
[00:12:36] to.
[00:12:37] Larae: Yeah, well, I mean, not just that, but also, too, like, Sefriana, you had told me, well, sometimes there's partners that are, I think you said demisexual, that there's... Demisexual. Demisexual. Or demisexual. See, like, I don't know any of this stuff. Um, so you said demisexual's not a sexual relationship, right?
[00:12:58] Safrianna: So, oh, asexual maybe is what we were talking about.
[00:13:01] So there's, there's people who, I always say, think about sexual orientation and romantic orientation as two separate spectrums. Because some people want a romantic relationship, but they're really not about the sex. They just don't have an interest in it. And some people are all about the sex, but they don't want the romance.
[00:13:22] Most people,
[00:13:24] Ikenna: well a little bit of both,
[00:13:25] Safrianna: the typical people, we'll call them sexual typical, I don't know, like the majority of people have both romantic and sexual attraction to the same type of people. So they're gonna, you know, if they're straight, they're probably gonna want to be in a sexual and romantic relationship with someone of the opposite sex.
[00:13:47] However, there are lots of people in the world, and we're just now really getting to know this. There are many, many people that don't feel sexual. Um, the asexual spectrum has really been marginalized, honestly, because of compulsory sexuality in society. The belief that you, if you are a healthy adult human being, you must be in a sexual relationship.
[00:14:10] But that's not really ethical either, if you think about it.
[00:14:13] Ikenna: Well, I mean, I was, I was even like, so I watched an episode. It was an old episode of a show called Private Practice. Um, and that's like a doctor show and, um, it's like a spinoff off of Grey's Anatomy and there's, uh, one of their first episodes had to do with a man who wasn't being sexual with his wife.
[00:14:38] And. They were like, oh gosh, what sort of psych consult do we need for this guy? And then the thing was, oh, he just has a, like, some, he has like a deficiency somewhere and now he wants to, you know, have sex all the time. So it's like, Oh, okay. So like, if you're not having sex, there is something wrong with you, was like the thing that was being portrayed there.
[00:15:06] And I mean, I'm sure like, you know, like future episodes, they've, they've incorporated, um, like more of the research based off of myself. I hope.
[00:15:17] Safrianna: Again, the ace population, even in the queer community, I remember Um, having conversations with people that were like, well, asexual people aren't marginalized in any way.
[00:15:27] Nobody judges them. Yeah, we do. We medicalize them and we act like there's something wrong with them if they do not want to have sex. Yes, it could be trauma. Sure. Or it could be that they're just not into that, which is totally valid. Cause sometimes I think about sex and I'm like,
[00:15:46] Larae: Wow. So, you know, as women get older, a lot of times they lose their sex drive, but that's not the same thing.
[00:15:54] Right.
[00:15:55] Safrianna: That would be like hormonal asexuality perhaps over time, right?
[00:15:59] Ikenna: Like situational asexuality.
[00:16:01] Safrianna: Yeah. Like our bodies and our sexual orientations can change over time. Right? Like that's something that, Again, I, when I teach this. To like a company or something. I talk about these different spectrums because we have our, our gender expression, right?
[00:16:18] How we dress. I've changed my gender expression like 50 billion times, right? My fashion is always changing. Sometimes it's more masculine by societal standards and sometimes it's hyper feminine by societal standards. But that changes throughout our lifespan, right? We can think of fashion changes. So then there's gender identity.
[00:16:38] Right? So, whether we identify more with woman, or man,
[00:16:44] Ikenna: or neither, or both,
[00:16:46] Safrianna: or, so, you know, there's different orientations there, and sometimes that changes. Because of hormones, or because of whatever, getting to know ourselves deeper.
[00:16:56] Ikenna: And there's this interesting societal concept, uh, at least one that I've noticed, both, well, me and clients and basically anyone else that are, that's LGBTQ, that we struggle with sometimes, of like, I have to know what I am because I can't change it, or else people are gonna...
[00:17:17] judge me for changing it. And so we have, so we get super like really intense in terms of like, I have to figure exactly the term that is meant for me. But if you go about it of like, You know, identity is fluid for everyone, no matter if you're LGBTQ or not, like, again, it's situational, like, you could be a very sexual person when you are in your 20s, and then you hit your 60s, and you're like, Nope.
[00:17:49] Safrianna: And the wells dried up and
[00:17:50] Ikenna: then you're like, yeah, and you're like, yeah, okay. And then you can consider yourself like situationally asexual and that's fine. Um, and it doesn't mean that you were just, uh, cause it's like people are always, I've heard people say stuff like, um, Oh, you were lying to me then. If you like said that you were sexual and now you're not.
[00:18:17] Safrianna: Yeah, no, we're constantly changing our minds, so yeah, there's, there's plenty of circumstances. I mean, I've known women, I've worked with women who in their 50s realized they didn't want to be with men anymore and chose to go be with women because there was more emotional fulfillment there.
[00:18:40] Larae: Yeah, that's another thing that's always been confusing to me.
[00:18:43] I'm like... Because I know people that have been married to a man, then a woman, then a man, and it's like, oh, okay, so, so that's bisexual? Or I've heard pansexual?
[00:19:00] Safrianna: Well, it depends on who you ask about the differences.
[00:19:04] Ikenna: So in, in our family, the concept, the way that we define it, um, is bisexuality is, Um, having sexual attraction to two or more genders.
[00:19:19] Um, and that can, and the gender doesn't mean like you love men and women. Like the, for me, I consider myself bisexual, but so far men do not make that equation.
[00:19:34] Safrianna: At least cis, cisgender men.
[00:19:37] Ikenna: At least cisgender men make that equation. Yeah. Like I've been attracted to, to trans men. Um, but there's... Like I, I've been in relationships with, with non-binary people, um, and with women, um, and with trans men and like that.
[00:19:54] And yet to have been in a relationship with a trans woman. I don't know if that will happen ever since I'm currently polys saturated. Um, but, um,
[00:20:05] Safrianna: she's like, wait, vocabulary, um,
[00:20:10] Ikenna: Uh, polysaturated is a concept that's like you, um, if you're polyamorous, like you don't have to date everyone you're attracted to.
[00:20:20] Safrianna: That would get crazy.
[00:20:21] Ikenna: That would get crazy. So it's like recognizing that the people that you are in romantic and sexual relationships with is like you are at the amount that you can handle to be able to fulfill your needs and their needs. And if you were to add anyone else, that would be too much. So polysaturated means I can't.
[00:20:44] And a lot of people, monogamous people, maybe that they're saturated at one romantic relationship. My other partner is monogamous. So he, he feels.
[00:20:54] He tells us all the time. He's like, I don't know how you do it. Yeah, he's like
[00:20:57] Safrianna: very, he's like that one is enough for me. Thank you very much. Like I'm happy.
[00:21:01] Exactly. No. Um, so yes, um, we were taught. I'm trying.
[00:21:11] Larae: Okay. I'm sorry. So get on that note, like getting back to my original question that I just got. Um, so as far as like being jealous of like, you have in another, you know, like you have in your relationship with Justin does Ike. And I know that we kind of talked about this before, like get jealous.
[00:21:35] And as far as like, and, and you're giving me a lot to think about here because I'm like thinking of my own shit in my head. Like, well, I used to be a big whore and I didn't really want to be in relationships, but I was all about the dick, you know?
[00:21:54] Safrianna: And I mean, so that's more of a sexual, you were more sexual.
[00:21:58] Larae: I know. So as you guys are talking, I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like, okay. What am I like? What am I doing?
[00:22:05] Ikenna: Yeah, you can do a timeline of your different fluid identities and show us what you realize you've you've changed from throughout your life as we provide you with more vocabulary. Um, but yeah, to answer your question.
[00:22:18] Yes. Like jealousy. I mean, duh. Like it happens. Yeah. I mean, and also society places a lot of Um, Romanticism on, like, territorial ness, so it's like, it's romanticized to be like, this is my partner, and like, no one's gonna get between me and my partner, and I'm gonna protect them, and like, I'm the one who can satisfy my partner, and no one else can, you know, like, there's all of this, like, placement of pride towards the, like, the sexual relationship that you have.
[00:22:52] Um, and so if someone else is able to provide something different, or provide anything else that is in the realms of sexuality, um, whether or not it is similar or different to what you can, what you provide, it's like, Um, there can be a scarcity model. It can be like, oh, well, if they're feeling satisfied sexually with this person, does that mean that they won't feel the need to come to me for sex, sort of thing, or, oh, like, um, This is a, especially with like, there's, here's another term for you, um, NRE, which is short for New Relationship Energy.
[00:23:31] This is for anyone. Literally anyone. It doesn't have to be sexual. It can be like that high that you feel when you're making a new connection with somebody. Um, in terms of romantic and sexual relationships, like, that can be like, you know, the first, Three to six months for your life.
[00:23:47] Safrianna: Well, it's usually three months to two years.
[00:23:51] It's about the time that it takes to knock someone up and have the baby. It's literally, and I talk about this with clients all the time, like, it is the chemical that says, like, we're going to do the family thing. We're going to, like, be a unit and we're going to... as a species. So this still comes into play in modern like relationships that we have these attachment
[00:24:14] chemicals.
[00:24:14] Ikenna: So maybe that's why it like you lose the NRE after two years. Cause you're like,
[00:24:18] Safrianna: we didn't have a baby.
[00:24:20] Ikenna: So, well, no, like you or the baby is now survive. The baby is now two years, you know, one to two years old. And we need to focus on the baby and not fucking all the time. So
[00:24:35] Larae: You're gonna have to focus on the baby and not the fucking. Yeah.
[00:24:40] Safrianna: Sorry, but, you know, we have to actually rear this kid that we produced from all the fucking, yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:46] Ikenna: So, but that's, that's like, so. So you'll, you know, our relationship had been established at that point. Um, and we had been dating for longer than two years.
[00:24:57] So like the NRE for us was gone, but then the NRE with her and Justin were, you know, they were transitioning their relationship from a good friendship to romantic and sexual. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like just kind of witnessing this, like. this palpable excitement that was happening that I wasn't causing.
[00:25:19] And so there was a lot of like mixed feelings around like, Oh my gosh, he's not like, I'm like, I'm not making her as excited as he is. And like, you know, and the thing about jealousy is that, especially in polyamory and especially in other Relationships, especially, is if you have jealousy and you also mix in the concept of comparison, um, and also with a nice heavy dose of shame, it causes It's huge, like, like it huge spirals, like it makes it so it can make it so hard to navigate because um, and then also if, if you haven't worked through the concepts of, um, and this is a thing that happens in any relationship, but codependency is a huge thing that can cause issues because it's like, I was struggling, you were struggling with the fact I was struggling, but I wanted you to be autonomous.
[00:26:24] and be able to share what you wanted with Justin and Like I didn't want any of that to be I didn't want to get in the way of that and yet I was still having like Meltdowns because of internally I was processing a lot of stuff and being really just struggling a lot and so like you would feel like Responsible for that even though you weren't and then it would just it was
[00:26:50] Safrianna: just yeah codependency.
[00:26:52] Ikenna: Oh, yeah codependency So it was just it just got to be I remember Yeah for probably a good year it was when they were first together. It was like, it wasn't easy at all. Like, it was very hard.
[00:27:07] Larae: Now, were you two married at that point? Oh, okay. Yeah.
[00:27:14] Safrianna: Yeah. And that doesn't change anything. Like, you know, people, I've, I've heard that when people are like, Oh, well, you know, I'd be willing to be polyamorous once we're married or something.
[00:27:24] That's the thing, like
[00:27:25] Ikenna: marriage does not make anything more secure.
[00:27:28] Safrianna: No, nothing really makes anything more secure. And that's why we have to really do our own self work to get secure in ourselves because these sorts of attachment things, like a lot of the themes that we're talking about right now. can happen in friendship.
[00:27:43] It's, and I get it, like a lot of us get really keyed in on like the sex because there's so much cultural, like, you know, again, one man and one woman and, you know, you have sex with this like one person and then you, like, that's the be all end all. So I know we like to go to sex for an easy example of feeling jealous, but like, There are plenty of heterosexual couples that like, Oh, you know, the, the wife has a favorite girlfriend that she's always going out with, or the husband's out with his bros all the time watching football, and like, they're not spending quality time together for similar reasons, because they're out in relationship with others.
[00:28:23] So, it's... It's, it's really about, and this is for every relationship, I want every relationship in the world to be a designer relationship where the two people, regardless of the relationship type, design that relationship together and they say, this is what the two of us want together.
[00:28:42] Ikenna: And it's not based off of, like, a lot of us base it off of the structures that society has defined as relationships.
[00:28:49] So we're like, oh, this is a marriage. Marriage means. Based on what society has told us is X, Y, and Z and then, but like, we're not, we're not, you know, like by the time,
[00:29:04] Safrianna: by the time this episode airs, we're moving away from a traditional relationship structure as a married couple.
[00:29:10] Ikenna: Yeah. Like we're, we're not, um,
[00:29:16] as our camera refuses to look at us. Um, but. Yeah, like, we're, like, the concept of marriage equals cohabitating, and we're not going to cohabitate, um, in a couple of weeks. And for a lot of people, it would be like, are you breaking up with each other? And we're like, no, like, no.
[00:29:35] Larae: Okay, so... I'm like full
[00:29:43] Safrianna: emotional experience over here.
[00:29:45] Larae: So are you guys going to live like on your own? Are you going to move in with your other partner?
[00:29:51] Safrianna: Yeah. Yeah. We're doing like a nesting switch.
[00:29:54] Ikenna: Yeah. So like my partner's moving in with me, Safi's moving in with Justin.
[00:29:59] Safrianna: The ideal for me is for us all to cohabitate as one big family, but we don't have the space for it in either house,
[00:30:09] Ikenna: so it's like a little too small for all of us to live there together. But, you know, in the future, it would be nice to like get some land and, you know, create. Or find a house that has is big enough space for the four of us. My poly Mansion. Your poly mansion with what? The four of us and then like our, uh, like eight cats, I think.
[00:30:36] Or seven cats. We're at six cats. Are we? Yes. So there's, there's, okay. One dog. Yep. Six cats and one dog. Wow. We're outnumbered by pets, which is fine. Yeah,
[00:30:50] I'm just witnessing.
[00:30:52] Larae: I know. I'm like, hold on. I'm still processing.
[00:30:56] Ikenna: You're like, I'm still back at the whole jealousy thing that happened like 20 minutes ago.
[00:31:00] Safrianna: And that's, you know, coming back to everyone just needs to design the relationship that works for them. Because when we get trapped in these traditional structures, this is exactly what we go through.
[00:31:09] We're like, it works. That can't be possible, but what if anything's possible? What if anything's possible because we agree upon it being possible?
[00:31:16] Larae: Well, you know, like you had said earlier, like, the communication, I guess that's really, at the end of the day, that's what makes or breaks that situation.
[00:31:27] Safrianna: Yeah, any relationship.
[00:31:29] Larae: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
[00:31:31] Safrianna: I mean, I, most of my people that I work with at this point are monogamous, most. Some people, some poly people come to me, but, um. And most of them have communication issues in their relationship, and that's why their relationship is falling apart. So, the foundations of polyamory are ethical, again, ethical non monogamy, is like owning your own shit and being willing to talk about your shit with each other so that you can be on the same page with your shit and it not destroy your relationship.
[00:32:02] But you gotta be able to do that, the two of you first, before you start incorporating other people, cause that's,
[00:32:12] Any,
[00:32:13] adding any relationship in is going to highlight the issues that you already have in your relationship.
[00:32:18] Larae: Oh yeah, for sure.
[00:32:19] Safrianna: So you can't, like, so many people try to fix things by opening the relationship up and it always destroys it every single time.
[00:32:28] Larae: So now, when you two came together and started dating, was it?
[00:32:34] Like on the table from the get go.
[00:32:37] Safrianna: I was actually married at the time. Not, I wasn't legally married. I had had a commitment. Married ish. I was married ish. Um, we had had a commitment ceremony. We were polyamorous. We, we had met and been polyamorous and then closed our relationship to try and work on the communication issues and done years of therapy and then we opened our relationship back up and then I met Ikenna.
[00:33:03] And then, um, Kenna was with someone else at the time, but then they broke up. Kenna moved in, and then my prior partner moved their other partner in, and that was just not, it was not a good situation. There was a lack of communication. There was lack of communication that that came back up and it, it destroyed the relationship ultimately.
[00:33:24] Ikenna: Yeah, and I mean, and I, and I went into the relationship with Safrianna, you know, like initially, well, I, I opened up the relationship with with all of the wrong reasons. Yes. Like that was, that was rough.
[00:33:39] Safrianna: Yeah, they, they're literally the textbook case of we're gonna open our relationship to save it.
[00:33:44] And then it literally imploding. Oh.
[00:33:46] Ikenna: Yeah, like we're opening up the relationship because everything, like the only red flag is, is like, you know, a need that's not being met in our relationship that another relationship could bring in.
[00:33:58] Safrianna: Until you know, you go get in another relationship and you realize like, Oh, there's like all of these issues here that we now see because this other relationship provides a different baseline.
[00:34:11] So it can be really, really, really, really dangerous. to get into a polyamorous or an ethically non monogamous situation, a non monogamous situation without knowledge, because it can't be ethical without that communication and that like basic one on one.
[00:34:30] Larae: Well, I grew up in a real religious family. So, and you know, it was one of those.
[00:34:36] You don't have sex before marriage, like it's only man and woman, blah, blah, blah. So I do know I have like, certain, you know, things in my head that it's just, it's not necessarily, I wouldn't say, it's just what's the norm in my head, you know? So, All this to me is, and I used to think I was like a little freaky deaky kinda and, and I'm like, Oh no, I'm pretty straight like...
[00:35:06] Ikenna: I don't know. Listen. Okay. So there can be like some real, real freaky kinky, you know, like heterosexual, heterosexual, monogamous people. Yeah.
[00:35:17] Larae: Well, so Bo, I, that's not really where I was going with that.
[00:35:25] Yeah, I know. I'm just like all over the place. So I had a friend that was in an open marriage and to me, so for me, I was always like, I don't get it. Like that doesn't make sense. And so, and she had a boyfriend and she would bring her boyfriend and the husband, like they go to parties that, you know, it kind of, Sounds like what's going on with you.
[00:35:48] I, but in my head, like I'm fine with everybody doing their, but in my head, I'm like, I could never do that. I, yeah. And yeah. So
[00:36:02] Safrianna: that just means, okay, you're not polyamorous or you're not, that's what that means. It's like, Kenna cannot really imagine sleeping with a man. Yeah. You know, full of desire. Yeah.
[00:36:16] Ikenna: Nope.
[00:36:16] Safrianna: I can, they can't like, I therefore date a man and they don't, right? Like we, we get to decide, we all have our own different preferences. And what I think is most important is that everyone is given the option to at least think about it. You know, there's, I think this is really relevant. There's a huge conversation happening politically right now.
[00:36:40] About not teaching LGBTQIA terminology in school because it is quote grooming them to be To become that. Which is not true, because we just proved it. We're like, hey, Larae, there's this whole option. You can have Yeah. You can do it. No, I don't want that. But you know it's an option. Like, you tell, I mean, you tell a a queer kid to be straight, and they'll try because it's survival.
[00:37:08] You tell a straight kid to be gay, they're gonna be like, what the hell are you talking about, right? Because they don't have that marginalization of harm, threat of harm because they're straight. So we need to normalize everyone being given the option to know, oh, monogamy is an option, non monogamy is an option, being straight is an option, being gay is an option, but We're not going to take an option if it's not authentic to us.
[00:37:33] Larae: Yeah. I, I feel like it's just, we need to get to the place where everybody can have their own option and do whatever the fuck they want. And I hate that there's so much conversation around it. And you know, like I remember when the transgender bathroom thing was all over the place, it was like, who gives a fuck?
[00:37:54] Like why is this a big deal. And, you know, people are like, well, people are going to be getting raped in the bathroom. And I'm like, what, like, what are you talking about? Who's raping who? Like, yeah. So I do know because I grew up, like I said, in a religious family in the South. And so I, yeah, there's this
[00:38:22] way of thinking and it's just like so closed off and not open to, you know, a, a different, um, way. And so, yeah, I, I'm, I'm really striving to not be that, you know, I, I want to be more open minded. I, you know, I, I want everybody to be included and I don't feel like people should be left out because of who they want to have sex with or who they want to be in a relationship with, or, you know, what they want to wear or, you know, whatever.
[00:38:58] And so. I, I've really enjoyed like talking with you too. And, and you just being so open to explain stuff to me. Cause I'm like, okay, I, I got no problem with it. I just don't understand it. And I don't know, like when it comes to pronouns and things like that, um, Am I, I, I never wanna be offensive to anybody, but I know a lot of people are like me and they just don't know and they just don't understand.
[00:39:29] So I think it's great to have conversations about these kind of things because, you know, like I said, when my friend was about the whole non-ethical monogamy, I was like, that's not a thing, girl. That's not a thing. Like no actually. Yeah. So I'm gonna have to go back to her and be like, okay, actually it is the thing.
[00:39:53] Safrianna: Sorry, consulted with a professional.
[00:39:57] Larae: Yes. Well, I mean, professional, it is.
[00:40:01] Ikenna: I think the thing that's so beautiful about conversations like this is the fact that like you're, you're showing just like, you know, there's a bunch of people like you who want to learn more, but like, There's also a lot of people in the LGBTQ plus community who Um, you know, have been traumatized a lot by people who have, um, who have invalidated their experiences.
[00:40:30] So like sometimes what we witness is people who are genuinely curious and don't have the language to ask the questions. And then the people who are, you know, very vulnerable and traumatized being the ones that they come to, to ask. And those people like will get triggered and upset and like, be like, you're saying this all wrong.
[00:40:48] How, you know, just. You know, why do you keep messing up and all of this sort of thing and it's like these like the people who are wanting who are not in the LGBTQIA plus community don't know these things. And so the fact that they're like, they're basically just at the beginning of learning something completely brand new to them that you have like, You know, thought about, like, especially in, like, people who are cis, straight, um, and, like, monogamous, um, or just cis and straight, like, like, they are not thinking about this sort of stuff versus the people who are LGBTQ plus have been researching it, like, like, just completely in, integrating themselves into this, frame of mind, and so it's like, um, there's this TikTok trend that happened like literally probably months ago that equals like 80 years of TikTok time.
[00:41:55] Yeah, yeah, those TikTok trends. Yeah, but it was like the, the phrase was, oops, I accidentally created my own reality. And it's like, people in the LGBTQIA plus community surround themselves so much with LGBTQIA plus stuff that when someone from the general public is not informed and comes into those spaces or comes up to them and asks genuine questions It's coming from a place of like, hello, I don't understand this, but I'm like, you know, I just am coming from a place of wanting to learn more.
[00:42:32] It's like, you know, gotta give people the benefit of the doubt and just... offer the information, or have resources to, like, be like, hey, if you're interested in learning more about this stuff, like, I don't necessarily have the energy to give you all of the information today, but here's some more books, and, you know, webinars, and workshops, and, uh, infographics, and stuff like that regarding,
[00:43:01] Safrianna: And it's really what is important.
[00:43:03] And, you know, Larae, like we are a resource, not everybody. And this goes for any population. Like we could be talking about black and African America, right? Sometimes someone is so in their trauma about something that they cannot educate. They do not have the emotional resources to educate because again, they're still so actively in their trauma.
[00:43:27] And so. Resources like us exist. Resources exist for, you know, ethical race education, and there are resources, but we have to be willing to, like, reach out and start the conversations with people to find these things out. So, you know, again, you're a trendsetter in this way of just, like, being open to asking the questions and, like, finding the people that can answer it.
[00:43:53] Okay. Again, a consensual open, like, yeah, we're in the joy of having this conversation instead of it being like triggering and activating. Yeah. Very different energy.
[00:44:03] Larae: Yeah. I have a, um, a trans friend. Um, well, I, I used to be in a writing class with, um, a trans woman and she was an amazing writer and. She was writing memoir stuff.
[00:44:18] And so I just loved it because I felt like I was learning from her without having to be like, okay, and then what happens. Um, but yeah. And you know, my, um, my, my friend, um, river, he's a trans man. Um, and. He had, before he transitioned, he was married to a man. And I was like, this is so confusing. Like, wait, so were you straight then?
[00:44:47] Like, and you know, he was really good about, um, you know, answer my questions too. And so I, I. Yeah, I know a lot of people aren't open to it because it's not part of their reality. But, um, you know, I, I think one of the big things that opened my mind, I mean, I've always been pretty open about stuff, but, um, is I moved to California and it's a whole different world.
[00:45:15] In California. And, you know, there, everybody is just allowed to be whatever the fuck they want to be and do. And I loved it. I, you know, when I moved back to Tennessee a few years ago, that was one of my big concerns. It's like, I just don't want to move back where people are racist and prejudiced and, you know, so judgy and all this shit.
[00:45:41] I loved that about California, that you could be whoever the fuck you wanted to be and nobody gave a shit, you know, and so when I moved back here, I was like talking to my realtor and I was like, girl, no, here's the thing, like, I don't want to be in a place where, you know, people are being judged and.
[00:46:05] People are racist and all, all this stuff. And, um, you know, she was like, well, you know, you're going to have a little bit of that everywhere you go, but you know, in Chattanooga, it's kind of progressive. And, and, you know, she said, you've got obviously pockets of that, but as a whole, it's, you know, more of an open minded place.
[00:46:26] And so. She was a lesbian. So I was like, okay, well, I trust you. Like, it was like, you're a lesbian. So I trust you on this. Um, but yeah, you know, it, and moving back here, I, it's a lot different. You know, I was in California for almost 15 years in Tennessee and North Carolina. I mean, they're not that much far apart, you know, it's kind of the same.
[00:46:52] So I do see a difference. And, um, then, you know, it, I, I don't feel like, I mean, it still exists obviously, but I feel like people are coming around slowly. I mean, not everybody minority. What's that?
[00:47:11] Safrianna: There's the very vocal minority.
[00:47:13] Larae: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And um, yeah, I just, I want to get rid of that mindset, you know, I really don't like it.
[00:47:26] Yeah. Um, so anyway,
[00:47:30] Ikenna: yeah, I mean the, the thing about mindset change is that it is, um, it's, we want it to be immediate, like a light switch and just know that the more questions that you're asking, the more you're going to be building up that metaphorical mindset change muscle. Um, and Yeah, so like, just know that that's the mindset that you're working with right now.
[00:47:56] And so, like, continue to do that work. You're continuing to do amazing work in terms of just gathering more information and asking questions. And I, like, I am glad that you, you know, we found each other because it's such a nice way to be able to show people the sort of conversations you can have. And it not be a triggering one for people, you, you can ask the questions and we can answer the questions and that's,
[00:48:24] Safrianna: and you can ask follow up questions and we can answer the follow up questions and we have the emotional energy to do so.
[00:48:31] So that's awesome. Thank you for asking the questions. Yeah.
[00:48:35] Larae: Yeah. Well, you know, I've been talking about getting my podcast going for like a long time. So once I get it up and running, I'll have to have you guys.
[00:48:44] Safrianna: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. We will gladly inform your audience of all kinds of stuff that you would want to talk about.
[00:48:51] Ikenna: Oh yeah, and I mean if we, uh, I might need to, like, figure out some questions to ask you. Yes.
[00:48:56] Safrianna: Oh yeah, yeah. We need to come poke your brain about some things. Yeah. So thank you so much for coming on and having a conversation with us today is so you're getting your podcast up and going hopefully in the future.
[00:49:10] Is there any other way that you invite people to reach out, chat with you, anything like that?
[00:49:14] Larae: Um, I'm on Facebook. Um, and I'm on Instagram, not really that much though. So, you know, I'll have to be really honest. I've I've had social media issues and so in this last year, you know, when I did the one book and so you kind of have to address that in that process because you're trying to promote yourself and that.
[00:49:45] Doing that book. It's so crazy how it is like been a snowball effect and like changed so many different things and it brought like shed light to my own issues and stuff like that. So all that to say is the social media thing was a real big one for me. I used to be like, why are people on that? They're just on there for likes and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
[00:50:09] You know, and then I had a friend that's like, no, I mean, it depends. You can use it however you want to use it. Like if you want to use it for likes you can, but if you're wanting to use it to spread awareness or, you know, to just share your story or whatever. And I used to not like. to take pictures of myself or, you know, have, so that's another hurdle I've had to get.
[00:50:34] But anyway, all that being said, so I, I did, I do have an Instagram, which I don't do a lot on. Um, but yeah, my, most of my stuff's on Facebook, which is really just my personal, like. Whatever. Bullshit. Like, hey. I went rafting today, guys.
[00:50:53] Safrianna: But that's fun and that's, you know, that is how we build, build trust with people and relationships with people is by showing up authentically and getting to know each other and, yeah.
[00:51:06] Yeah. Thank you for your vulnerability today. I would love to have more conversations with you.
[00:51:13] Larae: Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm so glad that you guys had me on like, um, when I first asked, I was like, I don't think you want me on your podcast.
[00:51:26] Safrianna: We do. We do. You're awesome.
[00:51:29] Larae: Yeah. So I'm so glad you guys had me and that we've been able to have this conversation and I know there's going to be more conversations.
[00:51:36] Safrianna: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm super pumped. Well, until next time.
[00:51:41] Larae: Do we need to do a dance off? Like, dance our way out?
[00:51:45] Ikenna: Yeah.
[00:51:46] Safrianna: Just lots of weird dances. Yeah.
[00:51:49] Larae: I don't even know what I'm doing here.
